BYOB in KY?

Does anyone know of any BYOB establishments in KY? I’m considering leasing a space for a restaurant (in a wet county) where alcohol is not allowed to be sold on premises. The lease says nothing about the consumption of alcoholic beverages. This has led me to research the legality of BYOB in KY. At this point I’ve not received a definite indication whether this is possible? Currently there is no specific legislation that covers this topic.

First I looked through KY revised statutes and found KRS 244.160 which states: “Presence of Alcoholic Beverages Raises Presumption of Intent to Sell.” From this I assumed a license, would actually prevent me from having a BYOB. Next, I e-mailed the state rep of Alcohol Beverage Control (ABC) to see what I would need. My e-mail was forwarded to an attorney for ABC who noted KRS 244.160 would not allow (if I had a license) outside alcohol to be brought onto premises and “The presumption of intent to sell refers to if you have alcoholic beverages on the premises that you own.” Further it was suggested I talk with a local ABC administrator who I forwarded the e-mails to. Finally, the local ABC administrator said the statute would prohibit the BYOB idea because “State law prohibits the presence of any alcohol on any business premesis (sp), regardless of who brings or provides the alcohol, unless that business is properly licensed with an alcohol license.” He goes on to say he does not think the idea is feasible, but will be happy to do some follow up research next week.

I do plan on asking the local administrator for further research. In the meantime any input from LHB forum readers would be much appreciated.
Even if I figure out how to get this done it doesn’t insure it will be allowed at my desired location. Still, I’m interested in the idea.

[Robin Garr]

Does anyone know of any BYOB establishments in KY? I’m considering leasing a space for a restaurant (in a wet county) where alcohol is not allowed to be sold on premises. The lease says nothing about the consumption of alcoholic beverages. This has led me to research the legality of BYOB in KY. At this point I’ve not received a definite indication whether this is possible? Currently there is no specific legislation that covers this topic.

Brian, a lot of us would love it, but it's my understanding that there IS chapter and verse - somewhere in the statutes - and that BYO is forbidden in Kentucky, both on licensed and unlicensed premises.

This seems to be variably enforced, and a few places do allow it. Typically it's either bring your own bottle into licensed premises discreetly, with permission, or bring it fairly openly into unlicensed premises where the proprietor's individual policy permits.

Best bet, frankly, is to talk with the ABC commissioner in the county where you plan to operate, and find out what local practice is. And if you're invited to make a contribution, it might be prudent to have a small tape recorder running in your jacket pocket.

Yes, on closer inspection KRS 243.020 states: License required -- Federal license presumptions -- Operator of unlicensed place not to permit drinking. Section 3 looks to shut the door on my hope to do BYOB: (3) Except as provided in KRS 243.036, 243.260, and 243.290, a person, conducting a place of business patronized by the public, who does not hold a license to sell distilled spirits, wine, or malt beverages, shall not permit any person to sell, barter, loan, give away, or drink distilled spirits, wine, or malt beverages on the premises of his place of business.

I'm disappointed to find this out. I guess IL, IN, and TN do not have this type of legislation- since BYOB seems to be legal in those states. Looks like I'll need to continue my search for a suitable location...':?'

[Robin Garr]

I guess IL, IN, and TN do not have this type of legislation- since BYOB seems to be legal in those states. Looks like I'll need to continue my search for a suitable location...':?'

I'm pretty sure that BYO is forbidden on un-licensed premises in Indiana as well, Brian, at least in practice.

There was a fairly serious effort to amend the law in Kentucky a couple of years ago to allow BYO as an option on licensed premises, but sadly, the restaurant industry opposed it, and without the professionals behind it, there was no impetus for it to pass. It seems that a lot of restaurateurs - not all of them, by any means - view BYO as a threat to their markups.

Brian .... You are a chef/restaurant owner. You are not a lawyer. Pay some bucks for a good lawyer. Don't try and read and interpret the law and put a lot of money into a venture on that basis.

You should have a lawyer look at the lease, but I doubt that the lease even cares about alcohol. You will still owe the landlord even if you close or you are closed.

I have had a beer (only) bar. I had the liquor somewhat hidden and served only people I knew. That plus a 12 pack by the door kept the ABC people away from me. At least until a guy shot another in the head.

I owned a liquor store. At that time the license included beer by the package and drink. Ran a nice profitable bar in the back room with drinks. Nobody really cared as long as you were careful about not serving minors.

I really don't understand the concept of a wet county with not having a restaurant wine & beer or a liquor license. I know that alcohol sales are important to restaurants.

The bottom line is ... GET A GOOD LAWYER.

Hi Brian,
Robin is right - can't BYO to licensed or unlicensed establishments in Kentucky. Several years ago (2004 I think) a state Senator proposed allowing restaurant patrons to carry in wine. Our members were split on the issue - some vehemently opposed the idea while others shrugged. We didn't take a position because our membership was split and there was no real effort to pass the bill. It's coming back up again, and I was in a meeting as recent as last week about it. The independent restaurateurs in last week's meeting were very opposed to such a bill due to the dollar investment, time and care they put into their wine inventory.

Stay tuned ... and best wishes to you!
Stacy Roof
KRA

[Robin Garr]

Hi Brian,
Robin is right - can't BYO to licensed or unlicensed establishments in Kentucky. Several years ago (2004 I think) a state Senator proposed allowing restaurant patrons to carry in wine. Our members were split on the issue - some vehemently opposed the idea while others shrugged. We didn't take a position because our membership was split and there was no real effort to pass the bill. It's coming back up again, and I was in a meeting as recent as last week about it. The independent restaurateurs in last week's meeting were very opposed to such a bill due to the dollar investment, time and care they put into their wine inventory.

Stay tuned ... and best wishes to you!
Stacy Roof
KRA

Stacy, it might be a very good thing for the independent restaurateurs to meet with some serious wine enthusiasts who would be happy to help them see this issue from a customer perspective. I could easily see a lot of wine geeks deciding not to give our business to restaurants that opposed such a bill, and that would be a shame since it would be easy to avoid.

That's pretty much what we did last week Robin - met with a state legislator who's a serious wine enthusiast. We gathered a group of independents who listened to his perspective and offered theirs.

[Robin Garr]

That's pretty much what we did last week Robin - met with a state legislator who's a serious wine enthusiast. We gathered a group of independents who listened to his perspective and offered theirs.

Thanks, Stacy. I think the message that independents need to hear, though, is that they will make a lot of wine enthusiasts angry if it gets out (and it <i>will</i> get out) that they are opposing this bill.

It's not that complicated. It's optional, not mandatory, so any restaurateur who doesn't want to offer BYO isn't required to do so. They should really check with restaurateurs in St. Louis (for example) where the law allows BYO on licensed premises, and they'll find that it *increases* business.

I'm actually not familiar with the Kentucky laws and statutes regarding BYOB but I do know that a few years back there used to be a restaurant on Main Street in LaGrange that allowed patrons to bring in Wine to have with dinner (when LaGrange was dry). I forget the name of the restaurant but it was around for quite a while.

I'm not sure if they were in violation of the law are not but they certainly did it openly in a downtown business district so I'm sure the local authorities knew about it.

I think there are a couple of issues at hand that restauranteurs may not take into consideration. First, despite a statute that does not allow BYO we all know there are many establishments that turn their head when a guest brings in a bottle of wine. I’ll bet there are some who have a corkage fee. Second, I find it unfair to the small number of wine and beer connoisseurs who would take advantage of this. Yes, it’s true that where BYO is allowed businesses usually have a corkage fee to offset lost revenue, and added service. It also allows a restaurant to better cater to the needs of their patrons. Say for example a guest does not enjoy a particular establishments wine list. If in turn they could BYO they may gain added business. It’s usually only a restaurants best clientele who want this option.

I’d like licensed establishments to be able to accommodate BYO, and additionally for non licensed restaurants to be able to offer BYO. Using Illinois as an example local municipalities have authority to license, and tax, BYOB establishments. Interesting IL legal Q+A here: http://www.iml.org/dbs/imllegal/dyncat.cfm?catid=912

I'm still newish to the L'ville restaurant scene (I think I may have another three or four months left of playing the new boy in town), but I can offer a little perspective from another city.

For many of the years I lived in NY it was illegal to BYOB, but it was understood that if it wasn't flaunted the authorities looked the other way. Indeed, if a restaurant didn't have a license people were expected to bring their own. One place I worked had an agreement with the liquor store down the street for a delivery system. I am not advocating breaking the law (much), but it worked very well for many years.

When the law was finally repealed I was working for a large steakhouse that initially wouldn't let people BYO. They then instituted a policy of a corkage fee- it started at $15. and I believe it was $25 when I left. The fee was high enough to discourage people bringing in bottles of Riunite, but a reasonable compromise between wine lovers wanting to drink a good wine from their cellar and a retail establishment needing to make money. It was always made very clear right upfront what the policy was if anyone asked and I don't recall there ever being a problem. Our regulars usually bought off our extensive list and when they wanted something special the corkage fee was a relatively small price to pay.

It might on first glance seem unfair to be charged for serving something you already own, but would you expect a restaurant to serve food you brought in from another source? I know I've been charged a plateing fee the one time I brought a b'day cake to a restaurant here- I would have been schocked if I hadn't been charged. Why should wine be any different?

I think what I am saying is that there is a compromise out there between wine lovers and independants and when and if the law is repealed we can all still be friends, enjoy our wine, and put money into our pockets.

I apologize if I have rambled on way too long- I thought this would be a short post. Oops.

But our legislature will convene a special session to give tax breaks to some coal companies because everyone knows that coal is the energy source of tomorrow.

[Robin Garr]

But our legislature will convene a special session to give tax breaks to some coal companies because everyone knows that coal is the energy source of tomorrow.

I know you know this, but just to play the pedant's role, that would be our <i>governor</i> who calls the legislature into special session ...

Mark,

The thread brought the same restaurant: "Bistro" something to my mind. Great place, great owners and one of the first restaurants I frequented after moving here (my Chiropractor was in LaGrange).

Based on my experience there, I always assumed that it was legal to BYOB into a restaurant in a dry county, as long as I served myself and they didn't serve me. I've done so many times, both in LaGrange and other dry counties in KY. I've never had anyone say anything to me about it not being okay.

Yikes! Are we certain that that is the reading of the statute?????. I've dealt with ABC several times and actually found them to be very helpful. While it's different, we were told by the ABC that people could bring wine to our (unlicensed) stored for cooking classes as long as they brought it and they poured it for a private event.

Brian, I'd still run it by the ABC folks in Frankfort just to make absolutely sure that it's verboten even if the patrons are serving themselves. Hate for you rule out a location in KY ....

Deb