David Clancy's post about the Crazy(my word) customer...

and the post about Italian sausage sandwiches and the responses that followed made me think about a couple of other things...

There were a few responses that included "it is not on the menu but you can order it." As a customer do you ever order anything not on the menu? Or as a restaurateur do you mind when people do this? Is there comfort zone that one should feel free to order within? For example – an Italian Sausage sandwich at Come Back Inn would be ok whereas tacos would not.

When you do make special request, like no onions for example, do you get upset if this cannot be done?

What crosses the line of a special request and ordering your own creation?

I would love to hear the differences in opinions from a restaurateur perspective and from customers.

To be fair I will give my opinion first...
I personally have never ordered an item that is not on the menu. I honestly don't even consider it as an option, don't know what was inbounds or out, and consider it a little bit rude.

It does not bother me when a special request cannot be granted. But honestly I am not picky so I very seldom make them.

The last question is a little bit tricky and I am not really sure I can answer in a concise manner but I will try. I think simple request such as no this or that or potatoes instead of rice is ok. But when the request becomes something where the preparation of the food is changed, like grill my chicken don't fry it. That is when it becomes a problem.

If you personally know the chef/owner and both of you feel comfortable with ordering something off the menu then that would be between you as friends. I couldn't imagine going into a restaurant out of the blue and just asking for any dish you wanted that night if it wasn't listed on the menu or as a special.


Special requests that take no extraordinary time or trouble to perform should be taken care of. Falling in the no onions, more onions, no ketchup.....area. My son wants his cheeseburger with bun, meat, cheese and ketchup and that seems simple enough. I like ALOT of lemon with my tea and ask for extra lemon.

In Mr. Clancy's case: Picky people are like bullies, confront them and they will either shape up or ship out. Either way peace breaks out.

Wow! Not used to seeing my big old name thrown up there like that.....kinda scared me! Too be sure, I never called them "crazy" and would not as I am in no position to throw stones (it's a cheese whizz thing). While I do object to completely butchering a menu beyond recognition, I do try my best to make a guest happy, so things like sans cheese/onions/ etc. are totally fine and understandable. Where I run into culinary conflict is when the original intent of the dish becomes so lost due to changes that I can no longer stand by what I am cooking. I have my own standards and I guess I have a problem sacrificing that for the sake of a few dollars. I also find that guests that are comfortable ruining food are also the first ones to complain about what THEY constructed. I always order what the menu entails as described, but then again, I cook for a living and have an intimate view of what transpires behind the scenes. Ever see waiting??

When I owned Muse Cafe (Frankfort Ave) my original idea was that I would offer a list of all the meats, cheeses, breads, toppings, dressings on the menu and people could create their own sandwiches, wraps, omeletes, salads, etc. The majority of people couldn't handle the stress of having to make decisions for themselves. It totally flabbergasted me. The majority of people ordered whatever creations we invented and hem and hawed and figeted when posed with the idea that they could get whatever they could create! We WANTED our customers to be inventive. A few were quite imaginative, like one lady who always asked for meatloaf omeletes when we had meatloaf as a special. Most of the time - turkey and american on white bread, boring.
I know that this is kinda the opposite of the thread, but we wanted the opportunity to be as flexible as we could. SIGH....I miss my cafe.

I don't order off-menu, but I'd much rather request that something be served without onions (for example) than throw the onions away. I'm not big on waste.

(I like onions, btw, I just couldn't come up with a good example.)

I always order from the menu, no substitutions, nothing on the side, don't leave anything out, or add anything extra. I trust the chef and respect the restaurant's vision. If they let me down, I don't go back. That's a lot easier than trying to impose my preferences on the kitchen.

David - sorry to imply that you said someone was crazy! I was projecting my own feelings...
That said another question I forgot to ask to those of you that are owners/chefs... How often do people order items not on the menu?

[Robin Garr]

I always order from the menu, no substitutions, nothing on the side, don't leave anything out, or add anything extra. I trust the chef and respect the restaurant's vision. If they let me down, I don't go back. That's a lot easier than trying to impose my preferences on the kitchen.

Hold on there, cowboy! How do you explain that box of Hearty Burgundy that Len keeps on hand just for you at L&N?

That's a direct result of my V.I.P. status there.

Typical requests, ie: "can I have it without this", or "sub this meat for that", etc. are very common and are easy to accommodate.

As for ordering stuff that isn't on the menu, as long as you see the ingredients listed elsewhere on the menu, it's typically simple enough. For example, one of my favorite sandwiches is a BLT. Not long ago I was at KT's. They do not have a blt on their menu, but bacon is listed as a topping for burgers, and lettuce and tomatoes are typically on hand at all restaurants, so I figure they don't have a problem making a BLT. Which, by the way, they didn't.

I can only speak for my kitchen guys, but they don't seem to care either way what the customer orders. Sometimes customers will order things that they think are weird, such as pepperoni in their chicken alfredo, but they don't have a problem making it. Customers can be pretty inventive!

However.....
All that being said, please don't make up a completely new dish by picking and choosing ingredients from the menu and then not want to pay for it because it wasn't to your liking. Sorry you didn't like it, but you created it, not the chef.

David - sorry to imply that you said someone was crazy! I was projecting my own feelings...
That said another question I forgot to ask to those of you that are owners/chefs... How often do people order items not on the menu?

We're all a little nuts to be in this business so doing a bunch of special requests is par for the course. I get requests that are "over the top" almost daily. I scratch my head and wonder if some of them were raised by wolves.....

I agree about the relationship with the owner and/or chef ... if I know them well and we have more than just a "hello" type of relationship, then I don't feel uncomfortable asking for something that maybe is no longer on the menu. I'm also not offended if they tell me they cannot accommodate my request.

There are times that I have asked for something to be grilled instead of fried or for a sauce to be on the side. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I am trying to lose some weight; it is difficult to eat in restaurants and still keep within my caloric / fat limits.

Something I am hearing from a lot of you is to "call ahead" if you have special needs. That is not something I have really thought about doing, although I do get online and try to scour the menu of a given restaurant to find what would be wise choices from a dietary point of view. Believe me, I wish I could have all of the delicious sauces et al that comes with some of these wonderful creations. But I also don't want to feel trapped into a position of never being able to eat out again because I can't justify the calories. So there are times that I do make a special request. I do think the way the individual makes their request (asking politely instead of demanding) makes a huge difference.

There has to be a happy medium about special requests.

Most of the off the menu requests I have seen have been due to food alergies (no msg, no nuts, etc.) or vegetarian options. "I would love to have the ____, but I am a vegetarian could I get something similar?"
We all make concessions for resonable requests. The concern that Dave raised was REASONABLE. The guests that Dave described in my opinion have crossed the line and are taking advantage of his hospitality. Dave is striving to please the customer. This customer(s) has gone to the point of dictating the menu, making demands in hopes of a free meal, and disrupting the staff.
Unfortunately we can't make every guest happy as hard as we try. I think any independent is going to try to satisfy a reasonable request. I commend Dave for all they have put up with from this guest and hope the frank conversation will encourage the guest to continue to dine at Bistro New Albany but make for a better experience for all.

Can't say I've done it often. Really the only time I can think of having done so was when I asked if I could get a root beer float at some chain place I'd gone to with friends... can't even remember which one. Wasn't on the menu but they had root beer and vanilla Ice Cream, so I asked if it was possible, they said sure, and charged me the price of a milkshake, which as I recall was quite a bit more than a soda, but quite a bit less than a mudslide. I was fine with that, seemed fair, and it didn't seem to bother them at all.

Can't really recall asking for changes to meals ordered.