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Foodies & Classism

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Peg O'Neill

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Foodies & Classism

by Peg O'Neill » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:34 pm

Hi all -

Robin, please feel free to delete/lock this post if you feel it is too inflammatory or out of place here, but I was truly alarmed (and upset) by more than a handful of the responses on the Yum/food stamps thread.

I was wondering if any other members of this forum have given much thought to the class disparities (and, de facto, racial disparities) when it come to finer dining.

I began thinking about this first from an eating locally perspective - for example, I am privileged enough to live in an area with a wealth of local and even nutritional food options. Then I started thinking about the restaurant industry itself - what the kitchen and waitstaff looks like at a local, slightly higher-end place vs. at a fast-casual concept. This, of course, got me thinking more and more about various institutional issues at play that may contribute to a (from what I've noticed) less diverse staff at some places, and I was just wondering if anyone else had given it much thought.

I hope people use this space as an opportunity to talk about such things and maybe recognize room for improvement, and not get defensive about it.

Thanks,

PO
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Robin Garr

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Robin Garr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:20 pm

Looks like a good, thought-provoking topic, Peg. No objections from me. I hope everyone will keep the discussion on an elevated plane, too. :)
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Kyle L

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Kyle L » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:49 pm

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on the subject as I think of its varied issues. Is your initial premise certain race tends to work in fast food while another in "fine dining". And , if so , what is the possible cause/reason/possible solutions?

Again correct me if I'm wrong on the matter. I may be repeating it,but want to make sure I've got it right. Thanks.
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Jeremy J

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Jeremy J » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:59 pm

Public funds should not go to support fatty, nutritionally barren fast food, period. It also should not pay for a meal at the Pig or the Oak Room for that matter. Food stamps are about basic needs, dining out is a form of entertainment. I don't see how that's classism.
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Carla G

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Carla G » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:09 pm

Not sure I totally understand the nature of the discussion you were hoping to encourage. Are we thinking about different socio-economic levels in fast food vs. fine dining servers? Hmmmm... I guess it could be argued that fine dining requires servers with a bit more polish and the ability to communicate better. But still I think when you're dealing with most (or at least many) establishments the real deciding factor will be transportation availability to/from work or at least the closeness to home.Is it on a bus line? Given the small amount paid per hour for either job, neither want to eat up their earnings in gas costs. True, a food server in a fine dining atmosphere has the ability to make far more per hour than a fast food restaurant worker but that's not a given especially on a weekday night where they may turn only a couple of tables then get cut loose. If one table is a 10%er and the other stiffs them that would make for a pretty sad night.
But, as I said, I may be misunderstanding the discussion totally.
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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Steve P » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:15 pm

Carla G wrote:Not sure I totally understand the nature of the discussion you were hoping to encourage....But, as I said, I may be misunderstanding the discussion totally.


Yeah, make me the second (or third) who was left kinda scratching my head on this one.
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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Mark R. » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:47 pm

Steve P wrote:
Carla G wrote:Not sure I totally understand the nature of the discussion you were hoping to encourage....But, as I said, I may be misunderstanding the discussion totally.


Yeah, make me the second (or third) who was left kinda scratching my head on this one.

As was I. It's hard to comment on a subject when you're not sure what the subject is. Maybe you and I need to go back, drink a few beers, eat a few ribs and then see what comes to mind!
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Alan H

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Alan H » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:52 pm

Peg O'Neill wrote: what the kitchen and waitstaff looks like at a local, slightly higher-end place vs. at a fast-casual concept. This, of course, got me thinking more and more about various institutional issues at play that may contribute to a (from what I've noticed) less diverse staff at some places, and I was just wondering if anyone else had given it much thought.


Are you looking at some questionable hiring practices possibly ?
Last edited by Alan H on Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Carla G » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:54 pm

Mark R. wrote:As was I. It's hard to comment on a subject when you're not sure what the subject is. Maybe you and I need to go back, drink a few beers, eat a few ribs and then see what comes to mind!


Uhhh guys (waving hands) I don't understand and I really think ribs would help me too!
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Brian Taylor Clark

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Brian Taylor Clark » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:40 pm

mmmm, ribs just make sure they're not falling off the, errr plate. :D
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Nora Boyle

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Nora Boyle » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:20 pm

Peg O'Neill wrote:

I was wondering if any other members of this forum have given much thought to the class disparities (and, de facto, racial disparities) when it come to finer dining.

I began thinking about this first from an eating locally perspective - for example, I am privileged enough to live in an area with a wealth of local and even nutritional food options. Then I started thinking about the restaurant industry itself - what the kitchen and waitstaff looks like at a local, slightly higher-end place vs. at a fast-casual concept. This, of course, got me thinking more and more about various institutional issues at play that may contribute to a (from what I've noticed) less diverse staff at some places, and I was just wondering if anyone else had given it much though


I may be wrong, but where I think you are going with this is the amount of Caucasians in the kitchen or waitstaff?
You know that dated saying about the man only being as strong as the woman behind him? Take this and bring it to the back of the house. Depending on what part of the country you are in, your kitchens are filled with a mix of Latino, African American, and Whitey all working merrily together to get your dinner out to you. Sometimes not so merrily....I believe what you are questioning is actually a classy factor. Not classism. The dishwasher could have been hired at Mc'd's, but chose to not settle for that. Maybe they started out defrosting catfish in a crappy place in Mayfield, but felt fast food was below them.
But really, when you think about it all of your ethnic choices (of which there are soooo many) high end and low end, these guys are basically people that didn't want to settle for yum brand food, and they aren't Joe Schmoe from the 'burbs. Does it go back to the parents? Or just your inner drive vs. your inner drive-thru.
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Mark Head

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Mark Head » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:40 pm

Maybe if you stated what upset you in the other thread a thought provoking response would be possible - otherwise I'm a bit lost.
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Greg R.

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Greg R. » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:52 am

Peg O'Neill wrote:Hi all -

Robin, please feel free to delete/lock this post if you feel it is too inflammatory or out of place here, but I was truly alarmed (and upset) by more than a handful of the responses on the Yum/food stamps thread.


In fairness to our host, I can't remember the last time he deleted, moved, or locked anything. I'm not sure why people are always so whipped up about their posts being moved or deleted. I'm not picking on you...I'm just sayin'...Robin has always been a fair and level headed moderator in my opinion with a reluctance to edit or censor anyone. Although I do sometimes miss the one regular that worked hard at, and then actually managed to get his butt kicked out of here :lol: (Robin, you can remove, delete, or edit that last bit if you're worried about this thread dissolving into a conversation about Longhorn steakhouse, but please keep the part about you being righteous!).

Anyway, I understand disagreeing with a point of view, but are you truly "alarmed" and "upset" that not everyone thinks the way you do? I know you're probably just being colorful, but when I hear those words I picture someone in their pajamas curled up on the floor sucking their thumb. You don't make it clear which side of the issue you're on, but the fact is that there are people in this country that think food stamps should be thrown from downtown windows like ticker tape (lest 20% of the population will die of starvation...IMMEDIATELY ) and others that think that anyone that accepts a hand-out is a complete degenerate. However, when I just went back through that thread I really didn't see too much of either of these points of view. I did see a couple of people suggest that we keep a closer eye on those using our money (the money I personally might be otherwise spending locally) to buy their food. Not a completely unreasonable stance given that I was in line at the grocery store behind someone dressed in fresh $150 sneakers, wearing $150 sunglasses, using an Iphone to plan a night on the town...all while spending food stamps on food that made a Burrito Supreme look like a farm-to plate, organic, multi-grain, colon busting, humus wrap stuffed with wilted field greens and imported stinky cheese sprinkled with fenel seed in comparison. Call me a radical, but I'm not sure what's so alarming about wanting to reel in in a bit.


I was wondering if any other members of this forum have given much thought to the class disparities (and, de facto, racial disparities) when it come to finer dining.


No, other than the casual observation that many of my poorest friends treat themselves to high-end restaurants fairly regularly while some of my richest friends rarely eat out at all and when they do it's at Chili's or somesuch...Different priorities I guess.

I began thinking about this first from an eating locally perspective - for example, I am privileged enough to live in an area with a wealth of local and even nutritional food options. Then I started thinking about the restaurant industry itself - what the kitchen and waitstaff looks like at a local, slightly higher-end place vs. at a fast-casual concept. This, of course, got me thinking more and more about various institutional issues at play that may contribute to a (from what I've noticed) less diverse staff at some places, and I was just wondering if anyone else had given it much thought.

I hope people use this space as an opportunity to talk about such things and maybe recognize room for improvement, and not get defensive about it.


You lost me on that one...
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Carla G

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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Carla G » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:31 am

Money foolishness is certainly not limited to class or social standing. You may think it foolish for a lower income family to spend money on a dinner out on occasions, I think it's foolish (and irresponsible) for a family with a $95000 auto in their garage to allow their son only 2 pairs of shoes (rubber galoshes and baseball cleats) and yet I see things like that regularly.
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Re: Foodies & Classism

by Madeline M » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:28 pm

I'm lost on the original intent too, but I can support the gathering for ribs. Especially if Steve P is working the BBQ!

Maybe the OP will return to clarify.
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