Shawn Vest wrote:Paul, i believe that Brian and Steve comments do validate my point and Matthew's assessment of what he sees to be a popular bias provides reinforcement.
$10 and hour is barely a living wage in today's economy in Louisville, mush less in a more expensive region of the country.
And $15 as the top end is really quite insulting.
Did you not read anything in my post past the first line? I agreed that $15 at the top end was too low. $10 as the low end may not be a good living wage, but it is definitely higher than some other workers in Louisville get. For a person with zero experience and not training, its not a bad starting point. Questions? See Michelle's post.
While I'm glad that you now understand that Matthew is on your side, you're still misinterpreting what he means by popular bias. I don't believe he was talking about the popular opinion on this forum, but in society as a whole. This distinction becomes important when you say we don't want servers to earn a decent living.
Shawn Vest wrote:Paul, statements like this only reaffirm your negative bias towards servers.
"You're making the false assumption that every server is in it for a career and providing for a family. Many servers are high school and college students who are just trying to make money on the side. I know lots of students who would love to make $10 an hour."
Umm... okay. Am I guilty of negative bias for assuming that college students and high school students would be hired as servers? Or am I guilty of negative bias for speaking the truth? Or perhaps I'm guilty of negative bias for saying something that doesn't conform to your worldview that all servers are in it for a career.
If you want proof, go no farther than this forum. Matthew worked as a server in undergrad, and he's not doing it now. (ergo he wasn't in it as a career...) He has no family to support, and he actually made better money than I did working for the university.
Shawn Vest wrote:My opinion is that most servers out there are over 21 and thus have the potential to have finished college and have possibly started a family and are probably living out on their own. I've never had a high school student as a server at any high end restaurant in Louisville, in fact.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I never said all, I said some. Also, I never said "high end restaurant." I agree that $10 is too low for a beginning wage at a high end restaurant, but not for Texas Roadhouse. You're putting words in my mouth, and its not appreciated.
Shawn Vest wrote:Now on to the simplistic argument of food safety.
Ahh, I was hoping this would come up. It was a fine piece of rhetoric if I do say so myself!
Shawn Vest wrote:No one was complaining about washing our hands, just making a point that simple things (like washing our hands) are not valued, despite their importance.
Au contraire! Washing hands is very highly valued, just not the tune of $150k, or even $100k. For those salaries (which in spite of the quibble over $10-15 an hour, is the main point of contention) you need to argue the huge number of demands placed upon servers (see my post on the matter if you have any questions) and not "washing hands."
Shawn Vest wrote:The utilization of this strategy is paired with the many comparisons used in this thread comparing the "worth" of various professions in terms of their importance to the safety of the public. Air traffic controllers and nurses specifically are deemed of greater value because the "safety" of the public is in the hands of these trained professionals.
My point, which you obviously missed Paul, is that servers are trained in food safety standards which affect all of us in a more direct way than the other professions mentioned in the thread.
Hate to burst your bubble once again, but nurses aren't paid good money because they wash their hands...
They're paid good money because of the hectic nature of the job, and the specialized set of skills necessary to perform it.
Similarly, air traffic controllers aren't paid for something simplistic like "don't spill your coffee on the console." They're paid to control air traffic!
Now on to servers...
They're paid to serve, which is very demanding and stressful. Washing your hands on the other hand, well not so much.
Shawn Vest wrote:how many people wash their hands before they pick up their menu or handle their glass, how many people go the restroom to wash their hands before they eat, after they handle their wallets or cell phones, watch people when they sneeze or cough or scratch their head...do they immediately wash their hands...or do they continue touching their keyboard, phone, etc.
Then lets pay the few people who do $150lk a year as wel! Woo!
I'd wash my hands for a long time if I was getting paid $75 an hour to do it! Shawn Vest wrote:Paul you continue to say that you are not knocking the serving profession, but you follow those statements by devaluing the profession by comparing servers to kindergartners
My point has been shamelessly warped once again! I love it!
I never compared servers to kindergartners. I said that we teach kindergartners how to wash their hands, and therefore you can't use "clean hands" as an argument to defend the salary you proposed. Surely you must see that.
Because it seems to have been so totally lost, I'll reiterate what I said in my last post about the arguments you should be making. Feel free to copy/paste, I won't come after you for plagiarism!
"Talk about the difficulty in multitasking while you’re remembering orders, refilling drinks, running food, and turning tables. Talk about dealing with unruly customers who don’t appreciate your hard work. Talk about the long hours, working holidays, and the time spent on your feet. Just please don’t complain about washing your hands!
"