Is 18% Tip Presumptuous?

On topic:

I've known servers in the past who've taken the gamble before to not charge the stated 18% on the menu for the large parties.

And let it be known to the paying party, "I've not added the 18% for parties of "X" or more... I feel like it should be at your discretion to choose your gratuity"
Sometimes it pays off big... The whole, "wow, that was nice of him/her, i'm gonna tack on more than it would have been and tip 20%"
Other times, they get stiffed.


I'm sure most of you in the biz are familiar with this "gamble" regarding auto-grat.
Yes?

I know that the Chicago talk is a derailment, but thanks for the heads up on Sepia. I'll be in Chicago this weekend and I know we want to go to Nacional 27, but hadn't picked our other place yet. I think Sepia's brunch menu looks DIVINE.

It's not a gratuity if it's added to the bill automatically. It's a service fee at that point.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gratuity

I think we should all argue for a while longer, does that sound good?

Hey Robin...What is the record for total pages for a post?

[Robin Garr]

Hey Robin...What is the record for total pages for a post?

I have no idea, but this one is not even close!

So, when you bill at 18% you are actually losing some cash from me.

You are free to tip above the 18 percent.

Of course. But, if you choose my tip amount for me, thats how much you are getting.

Thats my policy.

Its a perfectly fine strategy to take steady money over the potential for extra, but its a choice the restaurant makes.

If a restaurant wants to engage in gaming theory techniques with me, Im more than happy to oblige.

Robin Garr wrote:
Doogy R wrote:
So, when you bill at 18% you are actually losing some cash from me.
You are free to tip above the 18 percent.

Of course. But, if you choose my tip amount for me, thats how much you are getting.

Thats my policy.

Its a perfectly fine strategy to take steady money over the potential for extra, but its a choice the restaurant makes.

If a restaurant wants to engage in gaming theory techniques with me, Im more than happy to oblige.

Interesting gaming theory: So you would be a good tipper if only the world would let you?

Yes, that makes perfect sense to garnish your server's "would be" tip because of "a choice the restaurant makes." (You know, since the servers are so implemental in all the restaurant decisions.) That will show them! Perhaps you could also garnish their tip because you are unhappy with the decor, parking situation, food plating or weather.

Clearly some people feel like they deserve special recognition for their tip. You've already received it - in the form of the excellent service your party just received. And I promise you that if you do tip over the required percentage, it ALWAYS gets noticed, EVERY SINGLE TIME, even if it's just rounding up to the next dollar.

Robin Garr wrote:
Doogy R wrote:
So, when you bill at 18% you are actually losing some cash from me.
You are free to tip above the 18 percent.

Of course. But, if you choose my tip amount for me, thats how much you are getting.

Thats my policy.

Its a perfectly fine strategy to take steady money over the potential for extra, but its a choice the restaurant makes.

If a restaurant wants to engage in gaming theory techniques with me, Im more than happy to oblige.

Interesting gaming theory: So you would be a good tipper if only the world would let you?

Yes, that makes perfect sense to garnish your server's "would be" tip because of "a choice the restaurant makes." (You know, since the servers are so implemental in all the restaurant decisions.) That will show them! Perhaps you could also garnish their tip because you are unhappy with the decor, parking situation, food plating or weather.

Clearly some people feel like they deserve special recognition for their tip. You've already received it - in the form of the excellent service your party just received. And I promise you that if you do tip over the required percentage, it ALWAYS gets noticed, EVERY SINGLE TIME, even if it's just rounding up to the next dollar.

The server has already agreed with the restaurant policy by continueing to work there. Trust me, I know you are remembered for tipping well. I go in a large group (often MANY more than 6) to a local restaurant fairly regularly. They dont put a gratuity, I mean service charge, on, no matter the size of the group. We tip very, very well. They treat us well.

Your logic is really screwy. Why deny the server the deserved tip because of a mangement policy? If the service deserves it, tip what you normally would have if that service charge wasn't there. Don't punish the server. Do you change jobs everytime there's a policy where you work that you don't agree with?

The server has already agreed with the restaurant policy by continueing to work there.

Please. That's beyond reaching.

I know for a fact, from my days as a server, that almost every person who says "I would have tipped you more, except for your policy" is full of you-know-what. The same people would come back with a small party and not tip any better. It was their smug way to say "your fate is in my hands and while I'm going to pretend that I would like to take care of you I'm going to blame my inability to do so on someone else." Either you're a good tipper or not. Period. If you're not a good tipper, fine, just don't pretend like the reason you aren't is because the man is holding you down or because of some mind game that you file away under alleged principles. The principle when it comes to tipping is: good service warrants a good tip. (Not tipping well due to poor service is, of course, another story.)

Your logic is really screwy. Why deny the server the deserved tip because of a mangement policy? If the service deserves it, tip what you normally would have if that service charge wasn't there. Don't punish the server. Do you change jobs everytime there's a policy where you work that you don't agree with?

What if the server only deserves 17% or 13% or 0%? Some have said the server can ask to not put the default on, if they dont do that, I assume they are accepting 18%. In a normal tipping circumstance, the good tippers avg out the bad tippers. In this situation, the servers are trying to get the best of both worlds, get what they would normally get from the good tippers and force the bad tippers up to 18% (although I have trouble calling someone giving 15-17% a bad tipper). If servers are happy getting 18% from everyone, Im okay with that. But if you choose to get a service charge instead of a tip, dont expect more than the service charge.

RE: changing jobs -- If it affects my income, most definately.

The server has already agreed with the restaurant policy by continueing to work there.

Please. That's beyond reaching.

I know for a fact, from my days as a server, that almost every person who says "I would have tipped you more, except for your policy" is full of you-know-what. The same people would come back with a small party and not tip any better. It was their smug way to say "your fate is in my hands and while I'm going to pretend that I would like to take care of you I'm going to blame my inability to do so on someone else." Either you're a good tipper or not. Period. If you're not a good tipper, fine, just don't pretend like the reason you aren't is because the man is holding you down or because of some mind game that you file away under alleged principles. The principle when it comes to tipping is: good service warrants a good tip. (Not tipping well due to poor service is, of course, another story.)

BS. You are wrong.

On a seemingly off topic matter, but proving the point I do things based on principles, I have refused to sign an organ donor card. Im all in favor of organ donation and would like to do it, but I refuse for as long as the government doesnt allow me the right to sell my organs. The day the law changes, I will sign my card to DONATE them.

My point being, dont try to read into my actions what you think they are. You will be wrong.

In large groups, I always tip well. I know the pain groups are. Just let me tip well and dont assume Im some cheap ass in advance.

The "autograt" is not a direct shot at your character...its a policy. If the establishment leaves it up to the server (the few I worked at years ago did) then adding it could be for any number of reasons. For instance, how good/bad the night was for me. I personally chose to not have it added many more times than added, but there were times when I thought "F it, the way this night is going, I'll take the $60 and go home" because even with a possible 25% tip, I'm not making my normal $150 or so and I don't want to leave with $25.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "normal tipping circumstance," and I think most would agree that good tippers do not average out the bad. I think this is getting into the level of service, but I never considered averaging 15% a good night based on the level of service I personally gave.

***edit***
Then I would say don't read into a servers actions. You will be wrong.
Just because they added the gratuity doesn't mean they think you are a cheapskate.

The "autograt" is not a direct shot at your character...its a policy. If the establishment leaves it up to the server (the few I worked at years ago did) then it could be for any number of reasons. For instance, how good/bad the night was for me. I personally chose to not have it added many more times than added, but there were times when I thought "F it, the way this night is going, I'll take the $60 and go home" because even with a possible 25% tip, I'm not making my normal $150 or so and I don't want to leave with $25.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "normal tipping circumstance," and I think most would agree that good tippers do not average out the bad. I think this is getting into the level of service, but I never considered averaging 15% a good night based on the level of service I personally gave.

***edit***
Then I would say don't read into a servers actions. You will be wrong.
Just because they added the gratuity doesn't mean they think you are a cheapskate.

Fair enough on the edit. I dont really assume that anyway. I figure they think large groups tend to be cheapskates, not necessarily mine personally. Although, there was that time (nearly 20 years ago, now) when I was with a group at one of the Friday/Chile/Applebee/Tuesday chains (I have no clue which it was now), in which I walked up after a long wait (and it looking like there had been some available tables) and looked at the list and saw the notation "college" next to our group name (it was technically accurate, we were a group of college students). We ended up seated in an out of the way spot with a server who was obviously new and not very good, but trying hard. He ended up with an EXTREMELY large tip. We also never went back there.

Re: averaging out. Mathematically, good and bad always average out, they just may not end up at an acceptable average.