when restaurants refuse substitutions

I love this article about Disney World. I've noticed how none of the parents are smiling in the first picture that pops up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/magaz ... wanted=all

Not having childern, I couldn't possibly imagine going to Disney for anything. As a matter of fact when we plan our vacations, I tend to avoid places where there will lots of kids like the plague.

Not having childern, I couldn't possibly imagine going to Disney for anything. As a matter of fact when we plan our vacations, I tend to avoid places where there will lots of kids like the plague.

To each their own, of course. My wife and I so far have no children and we are there about every six months. I could say a lot more on the subject but we're seriously OT at this point so I'll just stop there and hope the conversation goes back to the issue of special requests at restaurants.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have allergies like that, but if I did, I'd want to be treated as a person and not just another seat to fill.

I think most of us can agree on that point. I think what frustrates a lot of chefs though is that people claim to have an allergy to something when in reality they just don't like it. It's become a catch phrase that people hope will get them their way, kinda like the "I know the owner" line. It's one thing to leave off an item, it's another to slow down the kitchen while you sanitize the grill because someone has an allergy to those mushrooms you just did for the last order.

But how do you know? I don't mean that snarkily. I'll give you an example. I'm allergic to mold. It doesn't kill me; it does make me feel like crap. Even if it isn't used to make the cheese, it is often growing on cheese. Since I'm a fan of cheese & pizza, I've done some experimenting. Mozzarella seems to be fine, especially when it's fresh.

I've found that eating pizza at Impellizeri's makes me feel like total crap for the rest of the night. If I eat at Coal's, I tend to feel fine. I think it's a matter of the amount of cheese they use and the fact that I chose a pizza with fresh mozzarella at Coal's. Other places, Boombozz for example, leave me somewhere in the middle.

The fact that I choose to eat some types of cheese at some places, doesn't mean I'm lying about my allergy. It just means I'm choosing to pay the price, you know?

kind of relevant,
absolutely funny
and all of it true at one point or another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2rYDc0flRg

Stolen from the Disboards. (a forum for people who enjoy Disney)

Hey I post there too!

And it's so true - even the not-so-great places on property are fantastic about accommodating food allergies and other dietary restrictions. I've known vegans to go into Ohana (for the non-Disney inclined among us this is a very meat-centric place) and come out feeling so well taken care of. Of course Disney has the luxury of having the backing of a multi-billion dollar infrastructure but even a little flexibility in making customers feel like they are welcome instead of a burden goes a long long way.

*waves*

The most important thing for any business to do, is to make their customers feel wanted. There are many ways to do that, and even if you're a top chef and will not change your recipes for any reason, make sure your servers are not sneering at your customers as they're explaining your reasons. A little empathy and some re-direction can go a long way.

I love this article about Disney World. I've noticed how none of the parents are smiling in the first picture that pops up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/magaz ... wanted=all

Not having childern, I couldn't possibly imagine going to Disney for anything. As a matter of fact when we plan our vacations, I tend to avoid places where there will lots of kids like the plague.

Ha! And John and I are going to Disney sans the children in September! I intend to have just as much fun without them as I would with them! (of course, John does say that living with me is like having a perpetual teenager around... )

I love this article about Disney World. I've noticed how none of the parents are smiling in the first picture that pops up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/magaz ... wanted=all

Dan, thanks for that article - I found it incredibly entertaining.

Just so I'm not misunderstood...... In my earlier posts, I was just trying to give the perspective from the back of the house point of view. You know the guys who have to do the actual substituting. Surprisingly, 90% of the dining public orders dishes the way they are described on the menu. So there really aren't that many "high maintenance" people out there. But the ones that are ....

Do I mind making substitutions? No not at all, Really! .
Unless that person is trying for something that I know for a fact would be truly awful from a culinary stand point. For example, "Would it be possible for me to have the Corn Poblano Cream Sauce from the Blackened Chicken dish with my Fried Cod instead of the Tarter Sauce?'
Usually I would just mock the server for taking such a ridiculous order and then make fun of the offending customer behind closed doors and just give them what they wanted anyway no matter how gross it was.

First of all..very interesting posts from both stand points. I hope I haven't held my tongue too long as I've been following this thread for a couple days now. I'll start by saying, as a cook in Louisville, every place I've worked and every chef/manager I've worked under has always had a very accommodating attitude with making sure the customer gets what the pay for. Meaning, ask for something irregular or off menu, you'll get it, but you'll probably pay for it. From a diners perspective (and you can definitely tell the difference between those that cooked professionally and those who just eat food and possibly fancy themselves critics), I think it's easy to say "why no substitutions, and i want this instead of that, and can I have this on the side, and I know the owner so let's give him a call to see what he thinks." And from a cooks perspective, I'm almost ashamed at how often I hear all of that. You want Louisville's food scene to grow? Wonder why we don't have French Laundrys and Alineas? It's cause as consumers we DEMAND TOO MUCH! Give a chef a year or 2 to establish a decent concept and menu, stop going out to eat with the attitude that you should be able to receive whatever sides and special requests you ask for. If your "server" has to ask you what side you want with your order...you shouldn't be playing critic on a SOCIAL FOOD FORUM!! Think for a minute that someone may be taking your advice and not eating at a place that you or your "friend" had a bad experience at. That isn't helping this town, this industry, or this site!
As for you those who demand substitutions, (the original topic of this thread), more often than not a restaurant (and their chef) will have ALTERNATIVE options and commonly a "safety" item. (i.e. chicken with starch, veg, and no nuts) Try to think about what it would be like to eat out without having to ask for a manager, grow up, and TRY SOMETHING NEW! Or at the very least, order the chicken with starch, veg, and no nuts.
Sorry if I seem a bit biased, but as a cook and an adult who is ok with not being treated like a princess when i go out, i felt obligated to put in my 2 cents.

First of all..very interesting posts from both stand points. I hope I haven't held my tongue too long as I've been following this thread for a couple days now. I'll start by saying, as a cook in Louisville, every place I've worked and every chef/manager I've worked under has always had a very accommodating attitude with making sure the customer gets what the pay for. Meaning, ask for something irregular or off menu, you'll get it, but you'll probably pay for it. From a diners perspective (and you can definitely tell the difference between those that cooked professionally and those who just eat food and possibly fancy themselves critics), I think it's easy to say "why no substitutions, and i want this instead of that, and can I have this on the side, and I know the owner so let's give him a call to see what he thinks." And from a cooks perspective, I'm almost ashamed at how often I hear all of that. You want Louisville's food scene to grow? Wonder why we don't have French Laundrys and Alineas? It's cause as consumers we DEMAND TOO MUCH! Give a chef a year or 2 to establish a decent concept and menu, stop going out to eat with the attitude that you should be able to receive whatever sides and special requests you ask for. If your "server" has to ask you what side you want with your order...you shouldn't be playing critic on a SOCIAL FOOD FORUM!! Think for a minute that someone may be taking your advice and not eating at a place that you or your "friend" had a bad experience at. That isn't helping this town, this industry, or this site!
As for you those who demand substitutions, (the original topic of this thread), more often than not a restaurant (and their chef) will have ALTERNATIVE options and commonly a "safety" item. (i.e. chicken with starch, veg, and no nuts) Try to think about what it would be like to eat out without having to ask for a manager, grow up, and TRY SOMETHING NEW! Or at the very least, order the chicken with starch, veg, and no nuts.
Sorry if I seem a bit biased, but as a cook and an adult who is ok with not being treated like a princess when i go out, i felt obligated to put in my 2 cents.

I'll second that.

First of all..very interesting posts from both stand points. I hope I haven't held my tongue too long as I've been following this thread for a couple days now. I'll start by saying, as a cook in Louisville, every place I've worked and every chef/manager I've worked under has always had a very accommodating attitude with making sure the customer gets what the pay for. Meaning, ask for something irregular or off menu, you'll get it, but you'll probably pay for it. From a diners perspective (and you can definitely tell the difference between those that cooked professionally and those who just eat food and possibly fancy themselves critics), I think it's easy to say "why no substitutions, and i want this instead of that, and can I have this on the side, and I know the owner so let's give him a call to see what he thinks." And from a cooks perspective, I'm almost ashamed at how often I hear all of that. You want Louisville's food scene to grow? Wonder why we don't have French Laundrys and Alineas? It's cause as consumers we DEMAND TOO MUCH! Give a chef a year or 2 to establish a decent concept and menu, stop going out to eat with the attitude that you should be able to receive whatever sides and special requests you ask for. If your "server" has to ask you what side you want with your order...you shouldn't be playing critic on a SOCIAL FOOD FORUM!! Think for a minute that someone may be taking your advice and not eating at a place that you or your "friend" had a bad experience at. That isn't helping this town, this industry, or this site!
As for you those who demand substitutions, (the original topic of this thread), more often than not a restaurant (and their chef) will have ALTERNATIVE options and commonly a "safety" item. (i.e. chicken with starch, veg, and no nuts) Try to think about what it would be like to eat out without having to ask for a manager, grow up, and TRY SOMETHING NEW! Or at the very least, order the chicken with starch, veg, and no nuts.
Sorry if I seem a bit biased, but as a cook and an adult who is ok with not being treated like a princess when i go out, i felt obligated to put in my 2 cents.

Respectfully, I’m sorry but…no. I am extremely accommodating when dining out. I VERY seldom ask for anything different, but when I do, and I am spending my money for a nice experience, I expect to be given the same respect I give you. I have worked at private clubs, I have worked at dives, and I have worked at chains. From the high end to the low end, the one thing that made a place stand out for my customers, was the staff’s eagerness to please the guest.

If you do not like reading negative critiques, might I suggest you refrain from reading the negative ones? We often bend over backwards on this forum to say very nice things about our local restaurants and their owners, and I find that to be a lovely thing. The other side of that coin, however, is that we do have to be honest, and sometimes honesty hurts. Even when we’re as kind as we can possibly be. It is what it is. I’d rather be a part of a community that is honest about their experiences than one that sugar-coats everything to the point that there’s really no reason for reviews. So, actually, yes…it does help this town, this industry and this site for us all to be allowed to give HONEST reviews.

I’ve been reading here for several years, and I tend to believe that’s what this site is for. (this is of course, only my opinion.)

Respectfully, I’m sorry but…no. I am extremely accommodating when dining out. I VERY seldom ask for anything different, but when I do, and I am spending my money for a nice experience, I expect to be given the same respect I give you. I have worked at private clubs, I have worked at dives, and I have worked at chains. From the high end to the low end, the one thing that made a place stand out for my customers, was the staff’s eagerness to please the guest.

If you do not like reading negative critiques, might I suggest you refrain from reading the negative ones? We often bend over backwards on this forum to say very nice things about our local restaurants and their owners, and I find that to be a lovely thing. The other side of that coin, however, is that we do have to be honest, and sometimes honesty hurts. Even when we’re as kind as we can possibly be. It is what it is. I’d rather be a part of a community that is honest about their experiences than one that sugar-coats everything to the point that there’s really no reason for reviews. So, actually, yes…it does help this town, this industry and this site for us all to be allowed to give HONEST reviews.

I’ve been reading here for several years, and I tend to believe that’s what this site is for. (this is of course, only my opinion.)

I think his response was directed at some very specific people who seem to act over entitled and presume regardless of where they are everything will be done their way/their friends way or the place sucks.

[Robin Garr]

We often bend over backwards on this forum to say very nice things about our local restaurants and their owners, and I find that to be a lovely thing. The other side of that coin, however, is that we do have to be honest, and sometimes honesty hurts. Even when we’re as kind as we can possibly be. It is what it is. I’d rather be a part of a community that is honest about their experiences than one that sugar-coats everything to the point that there’s really no reason for reviews. So, actually, yes…it does help this town, this industry and this site for us all to be allowed to give HONEST reviews.

I’ve been reading here for several years, and I tend to believe that’s what this site is for. (this is of course, only my opinion.)

It may be your opinion, but the forum bartender and janitor applauds, loudly. This could go into our FAQs without a single edit. Thanks, Christina!

Ok Brad, I can see that I guess. I didn't hear that in there, but I see what you are saying.

Robin, all I can say is ::blush::

Thank you!

We often bend over backwards on this forum to say very nice things about our local restaurants and their owners, and I find that to be a lovely thing. The other side of that coin, however, is that we do have to be honest, and sometimes honesty hurts. Even when we’re as kind as we can possibly be. It is what it is. I’d rather be a part of a community that is honest about their experiences than one that sugar-coats everything to the point that there’s really no reason for reviews. So, actually, yes…it does help this town, this industry and this site for us all to be allowed to give HONEST reviews.

I’ve been reading here for several years, and I tend to believe that’s what this site is for. (this is of course, only my opinion.)

It may be your opinion, but the forum bartender and janitor applauds, loudly. This could go into our FAQs without a single edit. Thanks, Christina!

Single edit: backwards to backwoods