Is 18% Tip Presumptuous?

I'll stand by my original post, as follows. Any pre-included gratuity is presumptuous. A tip should be earned, not guaranteed. Let me pose this question. Where you work, are your earnings guaranteed whether or not you perform your job well, or do they pay you regardless? I would venture to say that if you don't, you are outta there.

That said, I am an andividual who normally leaves a 25-35% tip. So, when you bill at 18% you are actually losing some cash from me. It just bugs me that someone wants to take that choice away from me. I really don't care what anyone has said in this thread, it's very personal to me. It is my party and my server. How much more personal can you get? They take care of me and my party and they will be WELL taken care of.

I see your point, but let me just say the following:
a)You are clearly not the reason this rule exists, but trust us that it truly exists for a reason. Also realize that the people who came up with this standard are the owners, not the servers. The owners rely on your repeat business, and if as many as you are as offended as you are implying, then they really had better be sure there's a valid reason to make such a policy as they rely on your repeat business. If everyone tipped appropriately than it would not be an issue, and again, if you have a problem with your service v. service charge, tell management, they won't hold you to it.

b)Sure, doogy as to your comments, yeah, a sub-par employee would be let go, but not without being paid the wage they were told for the hours they worked. If you want to debate the "include service in the price of food and charge me, while paying the servers a living wage" issue then start another thread. In fact, start another country, because it just isn't going to happen in this one. Not my choice. Just the facts.

c)ie: the "you're just shooting yourself in the foot because I would have tipped you more" argument- again...if it wasn't worth it, we wouldn't add. When you average it out, while we appreciate your "25-35%" tip, there are more than enough customers who are happy to take our time and effort on their large party and "reward" us with less than 10%. Again: most understand that the policy exists for a reason, and several choose to add their smaller percentage on top to show their appreciation

We're all on the same team on this board...that is why I really don't understand this thread. Particularly after such a grueling holiday such as Derby.

Excellent post, Jeremy. I have always tipped well for even basic service, and extremely well for service that rose above the pale. All servers EARN every penny in either tips or (abysmal) wages. No amount of money could induce me to take the crap that you, and all servers, take on a daily basis. It is hard to believe that adult people act in ways that even my 10 year old would never act. It is also our responsibilty to correct those we dine with when the act like an ass and treat servers with disrespect. It all falls back on the one tried and true maxim to live everyday with: Treat all people the same way you would like to be treated. Thank you and all servers who make my dining experience worthwhile.

Where you work, are your earnings guaranteed whether or not you perform your job well, or do they pay you regardless? I would venture to say that if you don't, you are outta there.

And I'll ask again, where you work, does the customer tell you how much you make unilaterally? I think servers are one of the few in our society who are in this positon, for good or ill.

Yeah, Jeremy. Thank you for taking the time to post something so insightful well thought through. Your character is strong.

I'll tip appropriately. I love food and the Ville. Anyone here knows this. My tips are normally over 30%. Just ask Cafe Lou Lou, Primo, NEC, Shiraz, Buckhead's, Widow's Head, Chili's, Gilberto's Gilato, J. Gumbo's.

Just ate @ Sepia in Chicago last night...18% for 6 or more...and the list continues. If it switched from 8 to 6 it must have been about 10 years ago, because it's been 6 since I started the "biz"

not to get terribly off topic again...

but how did you like Sepia?

I think it was probably the all around best meal/experience we had (in relation to quality/ambiance/price).


and hands down the best lunch i've ever had in my life.


FYI - They made Chicago Magazine's top 21 new restaurants this month, and chef Kendal Duque was named best new chef.
Well deserved in my opinion.

Doogy- Believe me, you're fine...I'm certain you tip more than appropriately, and I'm not sweating you, just defending a policy which I believe makes sense.

Ethan- we need to talk, friend. In addition to Sepia being one of the most fantastic dining experiences EVER, I would love to share some more details with you including a talk with Josh and his regards...seriously one hell of a dinner. Anyone going to Chicago, I implore you to try a truly unique and memorable dining experience, and they have one fantastic wine list that is WAY off the beaten path...for the better! Ethan, hit me up PM, yo!~

You people are funny! Has it always been six, or used to be eight and recently become six? As a diner, not a server, I vote that it was eight.

It should (IMHO) be 8. I have sat back and watched this thread grow (as I figured it would) for some time now and do feel that I should chime in. An 18% gratuity for parties of 8 or more is the status quo. There are many reasons/rational for the generally accepted policy of "mandatory tip" but I think the main reason is that servers have to devote more time and attention to larger parties and, with their sections absorbed by the party, they lose the opportunity to up-sell dueces/lose tables/ and are often relegated to "seperate checks" and are kinda kissing it up to God as to what they're final tip will be sans the guaratee. I think that Seviche is not "crossing the line" with 6 but I do wish that we could have a standard policy as it is all over the road (in general). For the record, I had an 18% tip policy for parties of 8 or more at my place and, on several occations, my servers would approach me and ask that that be waived as they could make more in tips straight up. It is a gamble....sometimes they won but...sometimes they got the shaft. JMHO

and David, your opinion is appreciated, but I really think the argument that 8 is the standard is dead at this point, since it's become clear that at most if not all restaurants in Louisville do it at 6 and have for some time...and in fact, I'm in chicago for the weekend and so far 3 of 3 restaurants that I've visited all have had the 6 @ 18% policy...again, not trying to be a smart alec, but this is standard, has been for some time, and is certainly not specific to Louisville.

Doogy- Believe me, you're fine...I'm certain you tip more than appropriately, and I'm not sweating you, just defending a policy which I believe makes sense.

Ethan- we need to talk, friend. In addition to Sepia being one of the most fantastic dining experiences EVER, I would love to share some more details with you including a talk with Josh and his regards...seriously one hell of a dinner. Anyone going to Chicago, I implore you to try a truly unique and memorable dining experience, and they have one fantastic wine list that is WAY off the beaten path...for the better! Ethan, hit me up PM, yo!~

I'm going to the NRA show next week and Sepia is definitely on the short list of other places to try... Having already been to Moto, Alena, Tru, NoMi, Avec and the like... Does it compare?...

To be honest... I just want to go to Gibson's, Ditka's,(I cant believe I'm even saying this) Lawry's or even the Weber Grill place and have a "true" steakhouse experience....

[Robin Garr]

So, when you bill at 18% you are actually losing some cash from me.

You are free to tip above the 18 percent.

It just bugs me that someone wants to take that choice away from me. I really don't care what anyone has said in this thread, it's very personal to me. It is my party and my server. How much more personal can you get? They take care of me and my party and they will be WELL taken care of.

You obviously either did not read Jeremy's excellent post, or you did not understand it.

[Robin Garr]

We're all on the same team on this board...that is why I really don't understand this thread. Particularly after such a grueling holiday such as Derby.

Outstanding post, Jeremy. Thanks for bringing some clarity to this thread.

and David, your opinion is appreciated, but I really think the argument that 8 is the standard is dead at this point, since it's become clear that at most if not all restaurants in Louisville do it at 6 and have for some time...and in fact, I'm in chicago for the weekend and so far 3 of 3 restaurants that I've visited all have had the 6 @ 18% policy...again, not trying to be a smart alec, but this is standard, has been for some time, and is certainly not specific to Louisville.

Oops..my bad! I'm still living in the 80's (which was probably the last time I had dinner with more than one person). Still, I think 8 "should" be the standard as most tables are 2s-4s (not 3's) so if your putting two tables together to accomidate 6 and not 8, the server is losing an opportunity to make a grat. I guess my point (if I can find it) is that 8 is "fairer" for everyone? JMHO.

I'm going to the NRA show next week and Sepia is definitely on the short list of other places to try... Having already been to Moto, Alena, Tru, NoMi, Avec and the like... Does it compare?...

To be honest... I just want to go to Gibson's, Ditka's,(I cant believe I'm even saying this) Lawry's or even the Weber Grill place and have a "true" steakhouse experience....

I would be sure to check out Sepia...I'm gonna do an entire "report" when I get back, but let me just say that in terms of food quality, atmosphere, interesting selections both drinkwise and foodwise, and service, Sepia was one of the finest restaurants I've ever eaten in. On my list of recommendations- Free Range Veal chop, Walleye Pike, and the steak tartare...one of the best tartares I've ever had. Cheese plate for dessert was perfect and really complimented the remainder of our wine. We ordered a Priorat, which was 70% Grenache, 20% Cab sauv, 7% Carignane, and 3% Syrah. I think spanish wine is the way to go at Sepia, it really pairs well with the menu and there are a lot of options...

Doogy- Believe me, you're fine...I'm certain you tip more than appropriately, and I'm not sweating you, just defending a policy which I believe makes sense.

Ethan- we need to talk, friend. In addition to Sepia being one of the most fantastic dining experiences EVER, I would love to share some more details with you including a talk with Josh and his regards...seriously one hell of a dinner. Anyone going to Chicago, I implore you to try a truly unique and memorable dining experience, and they have one fantastic wine list that is WAY off the beaten path...for the better! Ethan, hit me up PM, yo!~

I'm going to the NRA show next week and Sepia is definitely on the short list of other places to try... Having already been to Moto, Alena, Tru, NoMi, Avec and the like... Does it compare?...

To be honest... I just want to go to Gibson's, Ditka's,(I cant believe I'm even saying this) Lawry's or even the Weber Grill place and have a "true" steakhouse experience....

I've said it before.
Run, don't walk to Sepia.

And i second Jeremy's sentiments regarding the steak tartare.
It's incredible.


By my experience...

Sepia = better than Blackbird.

Though not as inventive cuisine-wise, everything was perfectly prepared and perfectly seasoned.
Which was what killed the Blackbird experience for me.