Help West Sixth Brewing against lawsuit

Big shot is big shot Roger. It doesn't matter if he was technology director for the DNC or the RNC. The side of the aisle is not the point. The point is these are no little shrinking violets but are, in fact, big time, plugged in players... presumably with deep pockets.

Which of course makes Magic Hat now look pretty stupid for not knowing who they were messing with.

On edit to say again, it makes West Sixth look duplicitous. And once again I feel like I'm watching Kentucky play UNLV.

[Robin Garr]

I'll just continue to blame the lawyers.

Henry The Sixth, Part 2, Act 4, scene 2, 71–78 ...

Which of course makes Magic Hat now look pretty stupid for not knowing who they were messing with.

He went in quietly, locking the door behind him, as was his custom, and dragged the purple hanging from the portrait. A cry of pain and indignation broke from him. He could see no change, save that in the eyes there was a look of cunning and in the mouth the curved wrinkle of the hypocrite. The thing was still loathsome--more loathsome, if possible, than before

Picture of Dorian Gray - Oscar Wild


Why would the fact that West Sixth are not so much the defenseless target that Magic Hat thought have any bearing on the validity of Magic Hat's case?

Shane I don't have a strong view on the viability of their case since I'm just a layman. I thought it was close enough to be actionable and who knows how it might play out in court? What I have felt strongly about from the get-go is that West Sixth are duplicitous liars who have pulled a quick one on a sometimes gullible public. And now we find out they're probably cut more from the Goliath cloth than David. Kind of amusing.

FWIW my Lex cuzzins tell me to drink Country Boy which is more of the real deal.

Shane I don't have a strong view on the viability of their case since I'm just a layman. I thought it was close enough to be actionable and who knows how it might play out in court? What I have felt strongly about from the get-go is that West Sixth are duplicitous liars who have pulled a quick one on a sometimes gullible public. And now we find out they're probably cut more from the Goliath cloth than David. Kind of amusing.

FWIW my Lex cuzzins tell me to drink Country Boy which is more of the real deal.

Okay, I get that but I pretty much think duplicitousness is so pervasive in the world of business that to choose to be offended by one entitie's transgressions is sort of pointless. It also seems to me that you give little credit to the consumers (audience) of these two actors.

I would suggest that assuming outrage on behave of the craft beer drinking community (dupes) is entirely unnecessary. From the beginning, I've felt Magic Hat's premise was without merit (IMO) and insulting to the craft beer community. It illustrated how little regard they have for their own customers. I don't feel fooled by either actor's rhetoric.

I don't "believe" that any of us can "know" the truth of how this has played out behind the scenes and I think you can always find people who quite honestly interpret the things we are aware of differently.

I think West Sixth's IPA is so noteworthy that it will eventually be distributed nationally; provided they are not put out of business. It's not a beer that will be easily confused in the pack. Magic Hat's product is one of minimal character and does not distiguish itself IMO. Magic Hat can't compete on the basis of product. The taste of the beer, not the packaging is why we buy it. I think #9 has too little character to ever be more than a gateway beer.

West Sixth might become a nationally known brewer at some point with sales on the same order as the larger craft brewers. I won't suddenly despise them when/if they do. If they begin to exhibit the agressive traits of large corporations who try to stifle their competition, then they will loose me as a customer. Even if their product stays the same.

Having said that, your Lex cuzzins are not wrong. Country Boy Brewing is making excellent beer and when you get a chance you should check them out.

Well, this is just me.... but I think bullshitting the public at large fits under the rubric of "displaying aggressive tactics", etc. Sorry, we don't like it when McFastfood bullshits us, we don't like it when Monsanto bullshits us, we don''t like it when Wall St bullshits us, and I don't see any reason to support any merchant, no matter how "small", who so blatantly lies to the public. To me at some point when you're that full of shit, I don't see supporting you or even remotely rooting for you. They went full douchebag.

Dan,
You're continued assurance of West Sixth's perfidy has almost convinced me it's so without really knowing why. I thought I'd read everything but now I'm thinking I missed something.

Please point out the aggrecious lies to me and you might just win me over. I've seen two parties provide their own statements so far. While I'm not really concerned about the "back and forth" between the two parties, I have also not been struck that either one has been caught in an obvious lie.

What are West Sixth's lies that have so offended you?

In their very first broadside i.e. the big facebook plea for "help" they claimed that they were being sued and the other party wouldn't even talk to them. Wouldn't return their phone calls, etc. Literally half an hour later the other guys (I assume) posted the correspondence between lawyers online which plainly showed that this was simply not true... they'd been in detailed talks for months. . They continue to rally the gullible by saying Magic Hat won't answer their calls even though West Sixth's own lawyer explicitly demanded that all communications go through her. They've also been untruthful about the timeline of legal wranglings with Magic Hat. I would add to that their insinuation that a court case would cause them to go bust when it seems (although I'm not 100% on this) that they have considerable capital at their disposal. They couldn't be more full of it and I'm gobsmacked why this isn't obvious to everyone. In any case, it's still a lot like watching Kentucky play UNLV i.e. I'd just as soon see them both lose.

Long thread here.. whew! I see a similarity of the labels but I highly doubt there West 6 intentionally "stole" the magic hat logo. That said, I think I now know that airing this out in public isn't the best way to handle things. I love the West 6 beer but it seems they could be more effective keeping this professional aka in house.

the latest from W 6th.
-------------

Friends-thanks to your help, Cerveceria Costa Rica / North American Breweries / Magic Hat is listening!

Despite the public outrage over their heavy-handed tactics, they rejected our offer, now claiming that they are due additional damages because of the outrage you’ve expressed. They don’t seem to realize that you all are angry about their bullying lawsuit, not our Facebook posts!

That said, we do have some good news – because of the pressure you all applied, they’ve also agreed to go into a mediation session with a magistrate judge. This will likely happen over the next week or so. We have no idea whether or not they’re willing to start at a reasonable place, since they still won’t tell us any settlement terms they would accept. While this makes us extremely cautious, we’re hopeful that they’re going into it in good faith and that this is not just a stall tactic.

At the same time, however, they’ve amended their lawsuit to up the stakes by including additional charges of “defamation” and “false advertising”, accusing us of lying throughout our posts online. They’re also contacting distributors and individuals throughout the country accusing us of lying. And now they’ve asked the court for an injunction for “immediate relief” against our public communications because they realize they have a lot to lose from the public hearing the truth about their legal tactics.

This will hopefully be our last post on this subject until after mediation. We’re eager to start talking about more fun topics – like the re-release of our tasty Pay-it-Forward Porter this Friday!

Thank you again for all the support. We couldn’t be more appreciative of all the kind words we’ve received, both publicly and privately, as well as all the support you’ve provided by buying our beer when you’re out and about.

Well, there you go. If you tell big whopping lies about your competitor you're liable for defamation. Seems pretty obvious. Whatever West Sixth's talents are in "forming public opinion", they're still exposed to the actual law. Really, considering that they probably do have considerable financial firepower and could have held up in a court case, the nuclear option now looks pretty stupid in hindsight.

Some nice words from Kevin Gibson for the Keg's Todd Antz, who flaunts the anti-MagicAssHat polemics v.v. Fest of Ale this weekend ... while not even once using that now ubiquitous "L" word (lie, not liberal).

Whoa.

http://louisvillebeerblog.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/take-that-magic-hat/

“Due to popular demand (i.e., my demand), we will no longer be pouring Magic Hat beers at this year’s Fest of Ale,” he wrote on the Keg’s Facebook page. “As one of the little guys in business myself, my heart is obviously with our friends at West Sixth, and we do not want to support Magic Hat and their parent company picking on a little guy like us.”

Some nice words from Kevin Gibson for the Keg's Todd Antz, who flaunts the anti-MagicAssHat polemics v.v. Fest of Ale this weekend ... while not even once using that now ubiquitous "L" word (lie, not liberal).

Whoa.

http://louisvillebeerblog.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/take-that-magic-hat/

“Due to popular demand (i.e., my demand), we will no longer be pouring Magic Hat beers at this year’s Fest of Ale,” he wrote on the Keg’s Facebook page. “As one of the little guys in business myself, my heart is obviously with our friends at West Sixth, and we do not want to support Magic Hat and their parent company picking on a little guy like us.”

Thanks for posting that Roger! I admire Todd Antz greatly for having the courage to take this stand and while I am pretty festi-verse in general, I will attend this one and order Ass-Hat beer at every stand. When I'm told there is none available, I will exhibit my confusion then say "Oh I meant West Sixth! You know, the one with the number!" Let's make Kentucky Ass-Hat free!

Seriously, I will now make a point of finding out which venues that I go to serve Magic Hat and I will let them know that I will not return while they serve it. It is a small gesture, but one I can easily afford to do. I will encourage my friends to do likewise.

If West Sixth continues this fight, I hope they find some way to solicit funds for their defense. I will contribute that way as well.

Finally, I will be drinking West Sixth IPA on Wed and every chance I get for the near future. I drank it on Memorial Day and it was fine! Cheers!

Follow up: Just contacted Molly Malones and let them know (respectfully) that the six of us would not be there on Wednesday as planned. We will instead go to the Mellow Mushroom down the street who has made the commitment not to support Magic Hat.

I asked that the information be passed on to the general manager and said that I will check back with them weekly to see if they too will refuse to support corporate bullies.

More of this please!

Okay, I get that but I pretty much think duplicitousness is so pervasive in the world of business that to choose to be offended by one entitie's transgressions is sort of pointless.

I suppose we should go through the exercise of pointing out that this is nothing more than the "Golden Rationalization" i.e. "everyone does it so it must be ok", a logical fallacy which has been rejected by ethicists since.... well since forever. Also I don't think that "everyone" goes around telling brazen lies about their competition in order to end-around litigation. West Sixth is being brazenly unethical and if there's a defamation lawsuit tacked on, all that tech startup money might just go up in smoke. But, I suppose it's easy to rationalize away their use of the "big lie" because { Craft + Local = Unabridged right to be unethical } on this forum. One wonders what some of you would say if a competitor ran around telling big whopping lies about YOUR company or YOUR employer. Shoe, other foot, etc.

Also, I think it's silly to suggest anyone is being courageous when they ban or boycott Magic Hat. At this point that's what the entire herd is doing so there's nothing particularly brave about running with the other lemmings. I think what would be courageous would be to ban West Sixth products on the basis of their atrocious behavior. Now THAT would take some Cajones.