when restaurants refuse substitutions

In contrast, I was in a foursome that visited Seviche last evening. There were no problems with each diner substituting any side items desired, or even adding extra items. Mr. Lamas is noted as an excellent chef, yet he has always accommodated his customers and never places his judgment before theirs. That is why he is successful.

Subbing steamed broccoli for new potatoes is one thing, asking for an alfredo without the cream is another.
Anthony Lamas is smart and talented, but I am willing to bet he doesn't sacrifice his culinary integrity just to accommodate every nutty request that comes down the pike.

I don't have a problem with asking for substitutions when I dine out - there are a few things I don't prefer, though I'm not a picky eater overall. But I also don't have a problem with my substitution requests being refused. When I choose to dine out, yes I'm the customer, but I'm also choosing to do business at a place with a published menu that in effect defines the terms on which the restaurant is willing to do business with me. They can choose to do business with me outside those published terms, but it's their prerogative to decide whether or not to do so.

I'm fortunate enough not to have any allergies, dietary restrictions, or orthodontia that restrict what I can eat. If I did, I think I'd have to do a little more research in advance and make sure I could be accommodated. Just as eating at Five Guys might not be wise if you have a peanut allergy, eating at a bakery that is nationally known for its crusty bread might not be wise if you can't eat crusty bread.

My journal is like a diary, except I'm a man so it's a journal.

You are a modern-day Samuel Pepys!

In contrast, I was in a foursome that visited Seviche last evening. There were no problems with each diner substituting any side items desired, or even adding extra items. Mr. Lamas is noted as an excellent chef, yet he has always accommodated his customers and never places his judgment before theirs. That is why he is successful.

Subbing steamed broccoli for new potatoes is one thing, asking for an alfredo without the cream is another.
Anthony Lamas is smart and talented, but I am willing to bet he doesn't sacrifice his culinary integrity just to accommodate every nutty request that comes down the pike.

I cannot disagree with this. Good point.

[Robin Garr]

Anthony Lamas is smart and talented, but I am willing to bet he doesn't sacrifice his culinary integrity just to accommodate every nutty request that comes down the pike.

I cannot disagree with this. Good point.

"Hey, bud, fry this ahi seviche ... "

Just so I'm not misunderstood...... In my earlier posts, I was just trying to give the perspective from the back of the house point of view. You know the guys who have to do the actual substituting. Surprisingly, 90% of the dining public orders dishes the way they are described on the menu. So there really aren't that many "high maintenance" people out there. But the ones that are ....

Do I mind making substitutions? No not at all, Really! .
Unless that person is trying for something that I know for a fact would be truly awful from a culinary stand point. For example, "Would it be possible for me to have the Corn Poblano Cream Sauce from the Blackened Chicken dish with my Fried Cod instead of the Tarter Sauce?'
Usually I would just mock the server for taking such a ridiculous order and then make fun of the offending customer behind closed doors and just give them what they wanted anyway no matter how gross it was.

Usually I would just mock the server for taking such a ridiculous order and then make fun of the offending customer behind closed doors and just give them what they wanted anyway no matter how gross it was.

As long as I don't have to look at (or eat <shudder>) refried beans, then I would gladly tolerate the mocking and the making fun of.

[Robin Garr]

"Would it be possible for me to have the Corn Poblano Cream Sauce from the Blackened Chicken dish with my Fried Cod instead of the Tartar Sauce?'

That actually sounds kind of good.

"Let us consider that we are all partially insane. It will explain us to each other, it will unriddle many riddles, it will make clear and simple many things which are involved in haunting and harassing difficulties and obscurities now...

...This should move us to be charitable toward one anothers lunacies."



— Mark Twain

I'm fortunate enough not to have any allergies, dietary restrictions, or orthodontia that restrict what I can eat. If I did, I think I'd have to do a little more research in advance and make sure I could be accommodated. Just as eating at Five Guys might not be wise if you have a peanut allergy, eating at a bakery that is nationally known for its crusty bread might not be wise if you can't eat crusty bread.

They offered softer bread on other sandwiches. They just refused to use it on a different sandwich. That's substantially different from expecting them to run out to Kroger and picking up a loaf of Wonder Bread.

I assumed that a lunch restaurant with sandwiches on the menu makes them to order. Perhaps they were serving premade food and that's why they refused the substitution?

I don't know, nor do I care.

edited to add: You're right about one thing though - I bear some responsibility for attempting to spend my money at their establishment. Like I said, I won't make that mistake again.

I think if you want a different bread that they routinely use on other sandwiches or fried onions left off a steak (omg YUM!!!) that is substancially different than asking for no carrots in your soup, and should be accomodated.

I would not frequent a restaurant that turned down what is (imo) a reasonable request.

This scene from Five Easy Pieces came to mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8

Stolen from the Disboards. (a forum for people who enjoy Disney)

"One of the reasons that we've gone to Disney 3 years in a row is that the CM's at the all of the restaurants handle food allergies so well. Our DS3 is allergic to many things (Eggs, Milk, Peas, Peanuts, and Gluten)...and he's really allergic, this isn't just "over-protective parenting". During his food test for milk, his body couldn't even tolerate 1 teaspoon in total before getting sick. It's so hard sometimes to find food that he can eat...but not at Disney.

At Disney, the cashier/waiter will instantly let you know that they'll get the Chef. The Chef will come out shortly and handle you with respect. They listen, they offer suggestions, walk you through the buffet/menu. It would be so easy for them to role their eyes and treat you like "your bothering me, I have work to do," But they don't. They really care and help to take care of our little pirate...special waffles, desserts, they will bake fries if their oil might be cross-contaminated with something having milk in it, etc.

We just returned from 10 days at Disney and I'm already planning our trip back because of how this little difference in attitude makes our vacation so easy.

If you want to experience this for yourself, go to any restaurant and say you have a milk/egg allergy. Then go to Disney and say the same thing. You'll be amazed at the difference in how you are treated."

This makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have allergies like that, but if I did, I'd want to be treated as a person and not just another seat to fill.

Stolen from the Disboards. (a forum for people who enjoy Disney)

Hey I post there too!

And it's so true - even the not-so-great places on property are fantastic about accommodating food allergies and other dietary restrictions. I've known vegans to go into Ohana (for the non-Disney inclined among us this is a very meat-centric place) and come out feeling so well taken care of. Of course Disney has the luxury of having the backing of a multi-billion dollar infrastructure but even a little flexibility in making customers feel like they are welcome instead of a burden goes a long long way.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I don't have allergies like that, but if I did, I'd want to be treated as a person and not just another seat to fill.

I think most of us can agree on that point. I think what frustrates a lot of chefs though is that people claim to have an allergy to something when in reality they just don't like it. It's become a catch phrase that people hope will get them their way, kinda like the "I know the owner" line. It's one thing to leave off an item, it's another to slow down the kitchen while you sanitize the grill because someone has an allergy to those mushrooms you just did for the last order.

There was a show on how Disney handles special requests around the park, from food to lodging for various disabilities including food allergies a few months ago...was very impressive.

Pertaining to the initial topic, I don't have an issue with a white cloth refusing substitutions. They should have a stellar chef that's created an amazing menu. We've been to two such places since we moved to MI and both offerings were so perfect I can't imagine what you'd want to change. If you don't like an item in the dish, you need to find a different dish. Both places did have a selection of "plain jane" offerings which made my picky husband very happy. We are going to an upscale Italian place tonight for my birthday and I currently have some pretty crazy dietary restrictions, but it's going to be a chance to expand my horizons, not test the chef. Besides, if they can impress me with something I wouldn't normally order I'll be a long time returning customer.