My problem with the Highlands & Bardstown Road

I'm confused, Robin. I thought it was Ellen P, not Phil, who stated, "The thing about Louisville is that there are not enough people to support everything. The same 30,000 to 50,000 people support almost the same things. The rest are very poor, family oriented, church oriented, and I think that is why we have plateaued."

But I do agree with you, Robin, and Kris. I may be a doting grandmother, but I am very active in my church (I volunteer to answer the phone an average of ten hours per week, I participate in two Bible studies in addition to Sunday school and a book club. I may live out beyond the Waterson, actually out beyond the Syder, but I do support the arts; in fact, I am a patron of the Louisville Orchestra. I eat out a lots (and never at a chain on Sundays, though I might eat at a chain once a month or less) and I do tip well. So I defintely agree that stereotypes about "church people" don't work very well.

[Robin Garr]

I'm confused, Robin. I thought it was Ellen P, not Phil, who stated, "The thing about Louisville is that there are not enough people to support everything. The same 30,000 to 50,000 people support almost the same things. The rest are very poor, family oriented, church oriented, and I think that is why we have plateaued."

My mistake, and a bad one. That's what I get for being in too much of a hurry. Sorry, Phil. And no criticism intended, Ellen P - just stating another view.

Phil - I think you would also like "The Old Port" in Portland, Me.

I empathise. I really do. Yes, Louisville is not walkable, even in the intown neighborhoods. I always think it's sort of touching how people in Crescent Hill or the Highlands look down at people outside of the Watterson...when by the standards of many cities, their areas would be quite suburban.

I completely disagree with the bolded. I can and do easily walk from my house to parks, coffee shops, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. etc. In fact, just today I walked to Kroger to pick up a few things, to a little park for a picnic with my daughter, and then home. One of the things I love about the Highlands is that we have access to pretty much anything we need. The mileage on my car is pretty darn low as a consequence.

I agree about the problems with Bardstown Rd, but I rarely drive on it so it doesn't really bother me.

I empathise. I really do. Yes, Louisville is not walkable, even in the intown neighborhoods. I always think it's sort of touching how people in Crescent Hill or the Highlands look down at people outside of the Watterson...when by the standards of many cities, their areas would be quite suburban.

I completely disagree with the bolded. I can and do easily walk from my house to parks, coffee shops, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. etc. In fact, just today I walked to Kroger to pick up a few things, to a little park for a picnic with my daughter, and then home. One of the things I love about the Highlands is that we have access to pretty much anything we need. The mileage on my car is pretty darn low as a consequence.

I agree about the problems with Bardstown Rd, but I rarely drive on it so it doesn't really bother me.

I second that and in fact, I would argue that for metro areas under 3 million (this includes St Louis at the high end), Louisville would easily be in the top 10 for having sustainable, walkable, urban neighborhoods. How many cities have neighborhoods with names known so well metro wide? Even people in Sellersburg or Taylorsville will know what you mean by Germantown, Clifton, Crescent Hill, Old Louisville, St Matthews, Beechmont, Highlands, Butchertown, they all have a significant sense of place and character; you don't find that in many midsized cities, which usually only have one such district.

It should be known that I am am the one who directed Phil to this site. Unless there are two ex NYC via Milwauke transplants to the Commondore midrise apartments, then he is the same person who posted on city-data.com. I am not plugging my board or anything, but several forumers on that site noted his generally narcissistic attitude towards Louisville, and even Milwauke for that matter. He even made an outlandish comment before he moved to Louisville (his wife moved first and he would come visit in the weekends sometimes) about Bardstown Road being one of the deadest streets anywhere he has seen; he claimed that State Street in tiny (but very cool) Madison, WI was more vibrant. One of the forumers there called him out on it, claiming he made the comment only because he thought Louisvillians would have never been to WI (Madison is more comprable to Lexington than Louisville).

Well, to be honest, when I first moved to Louisville, I was a bit skeptical myself, so I do empathize with Phil. I have lived all over, including regionally in Chicago, Indy, and Cincy, where I went to high school. Socially, Louisville can seem a bit clicky. This is because the post WWII history of the city has involved very little domestic in migration until the last 10 years or so. Also, for years, the most educated, urban-minded Louisvillians left (Robin is a prime example it sounds like). They were largely replaced by conservative, simple small town folks from rural southern or western KY whose parents moved to Louisville for jobs in factories post WWII and during the Cold War era. I think Louisville is starting to see more natives stick around, continues to see people from out in the state move in, and more people like myself and Phil and many of the others on this board are moving to Louisville and putting down roots. Also, as its manufacturing base has declined, it's economy has diversified; but it still needs to make big gains in attracting Fortune 500 companies and educating its residents.

Let me reiterate though in the last 4 years of living here I have become one of its biggest fans. As I have said on my site, Louisville does what it does very well for midsized cities. The only ones I have seen do it better in its size range are Portland and Austin. Louisville isn't nearly as "hip" as those two towns, but I think as UofL and Bellarmine grow, when downtown builds Museum Plaza and Center City and local shops fill in, and when we start to consider mass transit, we may have a shot at it. All this comparison to the world and US mega cities is ridiculous. No midsized city can compare to the culture of Chicago or NYC or London or Paris or Tokyo or Sydney, etc. However, I have seen many large cities with which I believe Louisville could comepete with from a walkability and urban, eclectic mindset, and Houston would be a prime example.

My final point is this. Many people who are making statements on here don't really know the city like they think. I could show each and everyone here nooks and crannies they have probably never seen. The fact that Phil made the thread questioning "what restaurant was in the 1300 block of Bardstown Rd" tipped me off to the fact that he probably hasn't walked the street! Bardstown is simply not appreciated from driving by, and its architecture is much different than the commercial corridors of the NE and Midwest; transplants must grow to love and accept this. In addition, the people of Louisville are like bears who hate cold weather even though they are practically in Indiana, and at the fist site of Spring, they emerge with a fierce hunger and want to play with their cubs. This culminates with Derby Festival and is capped off with the St James Art Fair, which in my first year, was what sold me on the city.

I have seen people on here assume the city didn't have Bubble Tea when it did. I even have a coworker moving back to her hometown of Minneapolis (which is a big city metro above 3 million of course) who told me she can't wait to get away from Louisville and all its chains. What chains I asked? She said they were all over. I then found out she lives in Middletown. Go figure Louisville has, with a few exceptions like pro sports, everything you need in a big city, just on a smaller scale and without the hassle.

Mr. Bolen,
I find your post to be condescending, arrogant, and provincial. It is the same kind of attitude that the John Birch Society and other America first organizations preach. Your reflections are somewhat akin to the concept that anyone who criticizes the war in Iraq is unpatriotic. If I find some things about Louisville to criticize, I feel I have the right to do so without someone referring to me as some kind of evil reprobate. I spent several years in Madison earning my doctorate, and what I was referring to was how State Street had shop, restaurant, bar etc lined up right after each other. The former mayor of Madison, Paul Soglin, created zoning laws, so that businesses along State Street would be of a certain ilk and that auto repair shops, muffler shops etc would not spoil the pedestrian aspect of the street. Madison is also one of the most livable cities in the world as several publications have expressed.

As for your references to my lack of worldliness, I grew up in New York City, had a flat in the 6th Arrondissement of Paris, (before I lost my shirt in the restaurant business) and have spent time in major cities throughout the world. I am hardly ignorant as your post implied. There are some great things about Louisville. However, its infrastructure and zoning are not so great. Bardstown Road is not pedestrian friendly and when we were here, on a cold Saturday night, it was empty. Louisville has great potential, but to act as if it is the epitome of urban nirvana is completely jingoistic.

Mr. Bolen,
I find your post to be condescending, arrogant, and provincial. It is the same kind of attitude that the John Birch Society and other America first organizations preach. Your reflections are somewhat akin to the concept that anyone who criticizes the war in Iraq is unpatriotic. If I find some things about Louisville to criticize, I feel I have the right to do so without someone referring to me as some kind of evil reprobate. I spent several years in Madison earning my doctorate, and what I was referring to was how State Street had shop, restaurant, bar etc lined up right after each other. The former mayor of Madison, Paul Soglin, created zoning laws, so that businesses along State Street would be of a certain ilk and that auto repair shops, muffler shops etc would not spoil the pedestrian aspect of the street. Madison is also one of the most livable cities in the world as several publications have expressed.

As for your references to my lack of worldliness, I grew up in New York City, had a flat in the 6th Arrondissement of Paris, (before I lost my shirt in the restaurant business) and have spent time in major cities throughout the world. I am hardly ignorant as your post implied. There are some great things about Louisville. However, its infrastructure and zoning are not so great. Bardstown Road is not pedestrian friendly and when we were here, on a cold Saturday night, it was empty. Louisville has great potential, but to act as if it is the epitome of urban nirvana is completely jingoistic.

I think you need to reread my post. Your attack on me was uncalled for and no where did I call you unworldy. Also, please don't exaggerate my words. Louisville is far from urban Nirvana; I never said it was. But myself and many others agree it is among the better MIDSIZED cities in the US. Sorry to have offended you, but frankly your reply to me was very unfounded.

Hey, Phil, buddy....I notice you still haven't answered my question about what you suggest we do about Bardstown Road in its current evolved state. You answered with a lot of talk about downtown development, but I still can't figure out what you want us to do NOW about the Highlands.

I feel it best that I begin to keep my opinions to myself. There are just some environments that find a difference of opinion a radical ignition to explosive dismissal. Thus, I will take on an affect reminiscent to an old Al Maguire adage, "sea shells and balloons." Everything is wonderful. I really have no thoughts about Bardstown Road, the Highlands, or Louisville. I just want a good rum and diet.

Tina, I'm glad you feel that the city is walkable, and I hope you enjoy it. I disagree strongly, however.

Someone living a block or two from Bardstown can walk to a handful of restaurants, a few stores, and perhaps Kroger. Can it truly be said that you can walk to work, schools, a large selection of restaurants, specialty stores, doctors and dentists, pharmacies...in short, all the things a person might need? In New York or the D.F., I could do that, and with the addition of public transportation, I never needed a car at all.

The sidewalks are poorly maintained; people park or put their garbage cans out of the sidewalk, making it hazardous to pedestrians who have to enter the street; the commercial areas are strung out on a long corridor, so while it's technically possible to walk to anything on Bardstown, it's difficult, especially for those of us with children in tow.

When we moved here, we rented near Douglass Loop. We could walk to Kroger - the single and poor choice in groceries. We could walk to Heine Bros. or, if we hiked a bit longer, Days, and a handful of restaurants. You could not walk to a single fish market, just to give one example.

Again, I'm glad you think that the city is walkable, but I just don't see it. It would be hard indeed to live here without a car (and indeed you did say in your post that you have one) the way I did in the other places I've lived.

That being said, I have the choice of living anywhere I want; my husband and I are self-employed. I choose to live here. It's incredibly cheap - the price of our very comfortable house would buy a crappy co-op in Queens. The people are friendly. There's a good arts community. But managable without a car? I just don't see it.

I feel it best that I begin to keep my opinions to myself. There are just some environments that find a difference of opinion a radical ignition to explosive dismissal. Thus, I will take on an affect reminiscent to an old Al Maguire adage, "sea shells and balloons." Everything is wonderful. I really have no thoughts about Bardstown Road, the Highlands, or Louisville. I just want a good rum and diet.

Phil,
You said yourself that you are not shy with your opinions. Do you expect everyone here besides you to pull in their horns? No one is being rude to you. As mostly a lurker here, I just see normal, respectful disagreement in this thread.

Consider this:
If one likes to dish it out, one should be ready to take it.

lurkingmode=on

I feel it best that I begin to keep my opinions to myself. There are just some environments that find a difference of opinion a radical ignition to explosive dismissal. Thus, I will take on an affect reminiscent to an old Al Maguire adage, "sea shells and balloons." Everything is wonderful. I really have no thoughts about Bardstown Road, the Highlands, or Louisville. I just want a good rum and diet.

What you don't get is that I actually AGREE with much of your assessment of Louisville. Louisville is a midsized to small city/however, so it is not comprable to NYC. Likewise, Madison, being substantially smaller, is not really comprable to Louisvlle.

I have always thought I would love to see all the old storefronts on Bardstown rehabbed. I would love to see the old Chevrons torn down and replaced with three story buildings with apartments above and ground floor commercial. The Highlands KFC, while cool for a KFC, missed the boat. It could have made a great, rounded, multi-story flat iron builidng that was kind of the center of the original highlands and its vibrant nightlife.

But, Louisville is what it is, and I stand by my opinion that it is among the best midsized cities. To Eliza, I think what we mean by walkable is different than the usgae of the term in say, NYC, Chicago, or DC. By walkable, I mean that one could live off Bardtsown and Longest and walk to a great grocery, a small organic one, a nice local cinema, almost any variety of restaurants, bars, coffee shops, clothing boutiques, 24 hour cafes, karaoke, hippie and hipster shops, tatto parlors and more, etc. The bus service is also very good in that area for a city its size, and despite Phil's false and rude accusation that I am "provincial," I have lived in 6 major cities and traveled to dozens of others, including growing up in Chicago and Cincy. Even in Chicago, one needs a car. I would argue the only city where one could reasonably live easily without one in the US is NYC. You could make cases for SF, Boston, Chicago, and DC, but even most people in these towns own cars. So, Louisville is "walkable" by midsized city standards; but you DO need a car like in 95% of America.

I live a couple of blocks from baxter avenue and highland, I walk to work almost every day unless it's raining or I'm more than an hour late, I walk up to valumarket sometimes to shop for groceries, I hit most of the little restaurants between roughly broadway and baxter to eastern and bardstown walking, sometimes I go further down and hit stuff down by douglass, but that's not all that often. Most all of my needs are met by places within walking distance.

To be fair I live by myself in a house, no kids, no permanent SO, my commute to work is about 700 feet as the crow flies, a little longer as the crow walks since I have to go around a couple of buildings.

Even people in Sellersburg or Taylorsville will know what you mean by Germantown, Clifton, Crescent Hill, Old Louisville, St Matthews, Beechmont, Highlands, Butchertown, they all have a significant sense of place and character

Michael, I have lived in Louisville nigh unto twenty years now. While I do know where Clifton, Cresent HIll, Old Louisville, St. Matthews, and Highlands are, I have but a vague idea of where are Germantown and Butchertown and, to make matters worse, until today I had never even heard of Beechmont. Then there is Rubbertown, Smoketown and Schnitzelburg. I think that some of these areas overlap, am I right?

About ten years ago I went to the large private bookstore that used to be on Shelbyville Rd. and asked for a map that would show me the areas of Louisville. I was told "No dice." If you are aware of such a map, please direct me to it.

P.S. I taught in Taylorsville for fourteen years, and while, I am sure that there are those who live there who know where these areas are, I assure you that most of the native Spencer County population do not.

Even people in Sellersburg or Taylorsville will know what you mean by Germantown, Clifton, Crescent Hill, Old Louisville, St Matthews, Beechmont, Highlands, Butchertown, they all have a significant sense of place and character

Michael, I have lived in Louisville nigh unto twenty years now. While I do know where Clifton, Cresent HIll, Old Louisville, St. Matthews, and Highlands are, I have but a vague idea of where are Germantown and Butchertown and, to make matters worse, until today I had never even heard of Beechmont. Then there is Rubbertown, Smoketown and Schnitzelburg. I think that some of these areas overlap, am I right?

About ten years ago I went to the large private bookstore that used to be on Shelbyville Rd. and asked for a map that would show me the areas of Louisville. I was told "No dice." If you are aware of such a map, please direct me to it.

P.S. I taught in Taylorsville for fourteen years, and while, I am sure that there are those who live there who know where these areas are, I assure you that most of the native Spencer County population do not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_neighborhoods

That defines the hoods very well, and will link you to some maps.