Free coffee today and free beer tonight!

So, um, back to the thread subject... How was the party last night? How big was that house round? Inquiring minds want to know...

[I told myself, "Don't get involved, don't get involved...."]

I'm glad that you are living in a fantasy world and don't believe that taxes will rise. I on the other hand realize what a reality will be. I wouldn't mind paying if I truly believe American would become a better place but I think we all realize that it won't. All that will happen is handouts to people unwilling to carry their load will increase in those who work hard for what they have will be punished for it.

As any one who understands past American history will understand when democrats are elected working people are punished. The only ones that prosper are the politicians and those that don't want to succeed.

I'll ignore some of your mass generalizations and, instead, point out a major flaw in your argument. There's an assumption to your argument that people should have to "carry their load" before they are entitled to anything. That is a conflation of economic theory and democratic political theory. The system has as much an obligation to the individual as the individual has to the system. From your argument, you are saying that the system is looking at for each individual but the individual is not holding up his/her end of the bargain. Freeloading, taking handouts, whatever you want to call it. If, though, we create a political system in which people feel represented and heard there will be a greater sense of participation from all people. Over time, and that is the key, load carrying could just possibly balance out.

The flaw in the "load carrying" argument for Republicans is they want everyone to carry but they don't want everyone to share in the spoils. It's always about what everyone can put in, but what the white, upper class, authorized can take from the system. Just last night I heard a political analyst (of Republican persuasion) tell me that young voters and minorities voted for Obama because they are not smart enough to understand economic theory. Maybe we (me being young, but white) are smart enough to understand - or, on the other hand, maybe it's not so much about the money that ends up in our pockets but, instead, creating a more perfect union.

It's not always about money. And to think I wasn't even that much of an Obama supporter.

I actually considered voting for Obama until I started hearing folks say that "if you don't vote for him, you're a racist." That pretty much decided who I was voting for.

??? You actually decided NOT to vote for him because a co-worker completley unaffiliated with the Obama campaign or the future Obama administration made an ignorant remark? With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense. You decide who to vote for based on ignorant comments of random people?

In that case, I wish I could have said to you yesterday (and many others, if they share your sentiments) - "If you don't vote for McConnell, you suck." Would that have persuaded you to vote for Lunsford? I'll remember this reverse-psychology tactic for the next election.

Again, no disrepect intended, but I just don't understand your logic.

My logic is, race should not be the issue, and a lot of folks I know who voted for Obama admittedly voted for him not based on issues, but SOLEY based upon race.


I voted for McCain because I'm tired of the government taking MORE of my hard earned money to give to people in this country who simply, don't want to work, or who are here illegally, getting paid under the table, and are NOT paying taxes. I have no problem with the welfare system, but only for those who truly NEED it, people who, for whatever reason, CAN'T work.

My husband and I, our friends, and our parents are basically going to be penalized for being successful. I think it's completely unfair. If these people want to make better lives for themselves, wouldn't they feel better about getting it themselves, instead of the government just handing it to them, off the backs of people who work every day?

Don't say I didn't vote on issues. I did. The race card being thrown around is what turned me off, that and hearing Susan Sarandon, and other celebs touting him as Jesus Christ incarnate. "Jesus Christ was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a Governer." He is not Jesus, he is not the "CHOSEN ONE", he is a man.

Now that he IS President, I will get behind him, and will be hopeful that he will do a good job. I'm sure he is a good man, and will do what he thinks is best for the country, and I think I'm ok with that. That being said, Nancy Pelosi scares the HELL out of me.

For the record, I didnt vote for Obama or McCain.

However, how many of you whining about more of your money being taken make more than 250k a year and/or are day traders who will be getting hit with a higher capital gains tax?

Regardless though, whoever went into office was going to have to raise taxes thanks to the mess we are in. It's a matter of how and on whom. Get off this redistribution of wealth meme already, this isnt socialism. If it was all the people that so many of these haters cite as leeches on the system would be forced into testing facilities and issued jobs based on how their skills were assessed.

At the end of the day I highly doubt either McCain or Obama were/are going to have us out of this crippling debt in the next 8 years.

I actually considered voting for Obama until I started hearing folks say that "if you don't vote for him, you're a racist." That pretty much decided who I was voting for.

??? You actually decided NOT to vote for him because a co-worker completley unaffiliated with the Obama campaign or the future Obama administration made an ignorant remark? With all due respect, that makes absolutely no sense. You decide who to vote for based on ignorant comments of random people?

My logic is, race should not be the issue, and a lot of folks I know who voted for Obama admittedly voted for him not based on issues, but SOLEY based upon race.
. . .
Don't say I didn't vote on issues. I did. The race card being thrown around is what turned me off, that and hearing Susan Sarandon, and other celebs touting him as Jesus Christ incarnate. "Jesus Christ was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a Governer." He is not Jesus, he is not the "CHOSEN ONE", he is a man.

Now that he IS President, I will get behind him, and will be hopeful that he will do a good job. I'm sure he is a good man, and will do what he thinks is best for the country, and I think I'm ok with that. That being said, Nancy Pelosi scares the HELL out of me.

Two quick things:

First, I'm glad you voted, and I'm glad you voted on the issues and not solely on other people's comments. We voted differently, and I surely don't agree or see things the way you do, but that wasn't my issue. I'm also happy to hear you will get behind the new administration - that is what this country needs most.

Second, I do think you have to back down from the references to other community organizers. The McCain campaign (and more specifically, Palin) were the ones that started harping on Obama allegedly not having expereince because he had only been a community organizer. The Obama campaign never focused heavily on him being a community organizer, but Obama supporters were well within their rights to defend on that issue, even if that defense was a bit strong. Also, I surely don't vote the way I do because of anything celebreties, and more specifically, Susan Sarandon may or may not say.

What a mess this thread has become...
All I have to say is the party went splendidly!
that and, "I'm a soul man"

oh and the round on the house was a few big 22oz bottles of Black Tulip from the New Holland Brewery in the great state of Michigan and some of Louisville's finest Browning's She devil ale.

If you (soon will be) missing that fine brew I'll be breaking open a half case on November 4, 2009.
And a quarter case on November 4, 2010
and a bottle on November 4, 2011, 2012 and 2013...

great party at DCE
thanks matt