Is 18% Tip Presumptuous?

No no no, Jeremy, I was talking about myself. My list far outweighs yours. Although your's is impressive, too.

Just bustin' your chops...now that I know who you are...

That's sweet Jer...

You people are funny! Has it always been six, or used to be eight and recently become six? As a diner, not a server, I vote that it was eight.

You people are funny! Has it always been six, or used to be eight and recently become six? As a diner, not a server, I vote that it was eight.

I think it depends on the restaurant. Every restaurant that I've ever worked at stated that there was added gratuity on the bottom of the menu.

I think we have lost sight of the original post. Here is my two cents. Yes, I agree that adding gratuity to a check takes away from the joy that one may have to express their thanks to a great server in the form of a tip. On the other hand, I would risk taking that joy away to insure that I'm tipped appropriately. What is appropriate? I think we should just agree to disagree.

I think we have lost sight of the original post. Here is my two cents. Yes, I agree that adding gratuity to a check takes away from the joy that one may have to express their thanks to a great server in the form of a tip. On the other hand, I would risk taking that joy away to insure that I'm tipped appropriately. What is appropriate? I think we should just agree to disagree.

Jessica, I think part of the issue for those of us on the non server side is we feel that in many cases when a server is guaranteed a large tip they don't necessarily provide as good of service as they do when they're working for a tip. Also in many cases were seeing the mandatory gratuity increase in percentage from 15% to 18% or more and we're seeing the party size where it's mandatory decrease from 8 to 6. With everything else taken into account in today's economy it just puts more burden on the diner's, possibly reduces the number of times they go out to eat and thus puts the viability of the restaurants themselves at risk.

I see your point.

I can only speak for myself, but I can honestly say that it never crossed my mind to not give 110% even though I was guaranteed a substantial tip.

Just ate @ Sepia in Chicago last night...18% for 6 or more...and the list continues. If it switched from 8 to 6 it must have been about 10 years ago, because it's been 6 since I started the "biz"

OK, I have to say that I understand everyone’s point of you from both sides, but let me explain that servers put up with a lot from bigger parties 9 out of 10 times a larger table will, with out meaning to run you like crazy and take away from your other tables, also if they want separate checks that’s also very time consuming and can slow down the rest of the restaurant since that server is taking one of the computers for a long period of time keeping others from using that station, servers tend to get better tips on parties of 4 or less than 6 or more the reason has someone mentioned before some people think $40 is a good tip no matter how much the bill is, and if you have been at the table 2 to 3 hours guess what that server has only made that $40 all night. Now why do restaurants not raise their hourly wage? Simple labor cost is already incredibly high in a restaurant and to do so restaurants would have to raise the food price, kitchen labor is not cheap, you need to have talented people in your kitchen with experience to put out a good product and that does not come cheap. If tipping is something that is not in the patrons budget than simply get it to-go. Also, if you feel that server does not deserve the 18% tip I'm pretty sure the restaurant will gladly take it off and apologize. Remember that servers have bills just like everyone else and they can't pay their bills with a thank you, some people think that telling you, you did a great job should be tip enough and that’s great to hear but like the movie said "show me the money". Now don't get me wrong I think you should tip for the service received if you did not receive good service then tell that server, write it on the check and tip 10% if u can, but tell them. When I hear servers whining about a not so great tip my answer is always the same "its all about the service play back the night did you do everything you could to make them happy?" That’s how the server knows if they are doing well or not.

So when my wife and I eat at a restaurant as a 'two top' we are an imposition on the server because we don't eat enough to generate a large tip, but if we invite two other couples and want to eat together we are problematic.
A friend of mine eloquently explained tipping to me as,"If you want this person to continue doing the job that they do, tip them." I tip my hairdresser of twenty years, I do not tip Vegas change ladies because they offer nothing above and beyond the dollar bill changer machine.
I tip the wait service at restaurants well because I know they can make better use of that extra dollar than I can, but I would prefer it to be my choice (I feel good about it) or the choice of the industry (stop screwing these people and include their wages in the menu price.)

So when my wife and I eat at a restaurant as a 'two top' we are an imposition on the server because we don't eat enough to generate a large tip, but if we invite two other couples and want to eat together we are problematic.
A friend of mine eloquently explained tipping to me as,"If you want this person to continue doing the job that they do, tip them." I tip my hairdresser of twenty years, I do not tip Vegas change ladies because they offer nothing above and beyond the dollar bill changer machine.
I tip the wait service at restaurants well because I know they can make better use of that extra dollar than I can, but I would prefer it to be my choice (I feel good about it) or the choice of the industry (stop screwing these people and include their wages in the menu price.)

That's about the size of it.

I have always been a proponent of wage / price adjustment for servers, but I don't think it's ever gonna happen. I don't think it is a bad thing to vocalize your position, though. Z's salon, and others I'm sure (just don't know who) refuse tips and pay fair salaries. That would be a wonderful trend to see in the food industry. I will defend service staff as long as they are paid what they are paid, but it's an awful tradition for everyone. "To insure prompt service" is just a blasphemy anymore. You should not need insurance for that.

So when my wife and I eat at a restaurant as a 'two top' we are an imposition on the server because we don't eat enough to generate a large tip, but if we invite two other couples and want to eat together we are problematic.)

Of course not! You are misunderstanding...
(get ready for a rant)
I actually love to serve; so do most servers who stick with it for more than a year, in fact I frequently spend more time at my two tops just to give them a great personal experience, and because they are frequently the most interested in talking about food, wine, and bourbon. It is not an issue of sales, it is an issue of allocated tables. Give me a choice of three 2 tops randomly and a 6 top with auto-grat and I'll take the 2 tops every day. It's more challenging, it's more interesting, it's more fun; and in fact the money is usually better.

Here is the core of the disconnect in what we're (servers v. customers) discussing.

On this board there are two very different points of view that are usually cordial, but hitting a head as a result of this thread. Here's the deal:
99% if not all the people on this board are awesome conscientious folk who not only take care of their server, but respect what they do. Unfortunately, the broader dining public doesn't represent the class shown on this board, and the polite to impolite ratio is a lot more disparate than you may think.

If you want to know why servers are so defensive on this board I'll tell you right now. A lot of people treat us like crap. Frequently. They bring their friends and family in and treat us as if we're freakin' drug dealers hiding in the alleys by their house. Seriously. There are a lot of amazing great customers, but there are also just as many people who act as if I am intentionally trying to ruin their meal. It's insane. I want everyone to have a great time.

case in point: a friend of mine (who works with me) was waiting on a large table of "gentlemen." In addition to talking to her as if she had a mental impairment the entire dinner, they asked for coffee, decaf to be specific. When she said OK, they then asked her if it was really going to be decaf, as if all us servers are running around cracking up about serving customers regular or whatever WE want...after reassuring them, she brought them the coffee, they again asked if it was REALLY decaf...so they were implying that either she was stupid or a liar, and after even when she brought them a refill, in a decaf pot, with an orange lid they gave her a hard time. When I tried to help her by delivering her desserts they accused me of taking a bite of their desserts because it was the first piece of cake and was missing a divit the size of a pinky fingertip No sh**t. They were dead serious, and then asked to get something for free.

Now that is an extreme circumstance, but that kind of stuff happens EVERY night. Just 3 days ago, a woman at my wife's restaurant didn't like her lunch choice, but rather than just say that ,she pretended there was a hair in it. When my wife asked where the hair was (to figure out who's it was and put a stop to the problem) she looked like a deer in headlights and said "OH, uh, it's was definitely in there, I saw it, just bring me...."

When we have a great board of food interested peeps, and service minded workers, at some point it's bound to clash, particularly when you all don't realize that you all are the cream of the crop. Thanks for your business and your respect, believe us when we say that the auto grat is NOT there because of you folks, but that it is truly there for a reason, and thank you all for being the reason that it's worth it do the job we do!!!

We're not here to whine, we're just hoping that as experienced diners you realize that sometimes you need to give your servers the benefit of the doubt. We work hard, and really the only reason we do it is because we love making you all happy!

I'll stand by my original post, as follows. Any pre-included gratuity is presumptuous. A tip should be earned, not guaranteed. Let me pose this question. Where you work, are your earnings guaranteed whether or not you perform your job well, or do they pay you regardless? I would venture to say that if you don't, you are outta there.

That said, I am an andividual who normally leaves a 25-35% tip. So, when you bill at 18% you are actually losing some cash from me. It just bugs me that someone wants to take that choice away from me. I really don't care what anyone has said in this thread, it's very personal to me. It is my party and my server. How much more personal can you get? They take care of me and my party and they will be WELL taken care of.

You should be proud of yourself, Jeremy. You are a fine example of a decent human being.