Velocity on BJ's, snobs and skeptics: Very corporate (duh).

Josh Thomas here (I'm using Lisa Hornung's login because I didn't want to waste my time to get a log-in on my own).

What I find funny is that the god of beer hadn't even given the business a chance before calling me "clueless." I'm sure he'll find the beer distaseful and the atmosphere atrocious. But such is life. Some miserable folks always look for what's wrong so they'll have something to gripe about - preferably something they think they do better than others. (Kneeling down on one knee) So, great god of beer, please forgive me for not kissing your butt and tsk-tsking the big, bad, evil brewery for trying to provide people with a good time. Please forgive us for not having the discerning tastes that you have. Forgive me for working at Velocity to put food on my table and a roof over my head. In the Great God of Beer's name I pray. Amen.

The god of beer finds it interesting that it was Josh who chose to introduce the concept of beer "snob" not once, but at least three times in the original review (don't want to waste my time by going back and rereading it), so it would seem that the reference to "clueless" might ... just might ... have had to do with this fact, and the overall tendency of Velocity to be flippant at the expense of accuracy, and not whether BJ's had or had not been visited (which the god of beer said he fully intends to do, and would be happy to join other forumites when the time comes).

And, the god of beer's butt doesn't need to be kissed, because he gets paid for writing, too. Writing about beer ... presumably because he knows a fair amount about the topic. There is no fear that the beer at BJ's will be distasteful; to the contrary, it almost certainly will be calibrated precisely to style at the broad end of the target. Meanwhile, there are five local breweries capable of doing the same or better, while keeping dollars in the community. Take it for what you will, but the beer god is loyal to his local brothers, he isn't afraid to get passionate about it, and he'll only use words like "clueless" when triggered ... which Josh did, and unnecessarily.

Just curious...What medical procedure did you have done....

[Robin Garr]

Just curious...What medical procedure did you have done....

I don't really natter on about that kind of thing in public much, Robert. Those who feel they're my friends are free to (and mostly already have) contact me in private with their thoughts, comments, prayers and friendly insults.

Hi, Lisa here this time.

I didn't reply earlier because it was Josh who really wanted to speak, and I have a sinus headache that feels like Budweiser Clidesdales are marching across my face (bad pun intended). I've taken a (generic) Zyrtec, and I'm feeling better now.

I feel like I need to chime in here. Because we are owned by a large corporation, it is assumed that we give good reviews of corporate-owned businesses out of some loyalty to large corporations or disloyalty to locally owned ones. If you think about it, where would the integrity be in that? Should we only give good reviews to local businesses and automatically pan the chains? That wouldn't be right at all, and I wouldn't work for a publication that did that. And advertising doesn't have anything to do with it, either. Believe me, I've had my share of nasty e-mails from ad reps after giving their clients bad reviews. It doesn't change my position or that of my editors.

Josh went to a chain to check it out because that is his job. He gave an honest review and was called "clueless" for it. Josh and I are pretty good friends, and I can tell you he knows more about beer than most people I know. While he prefers a dark beer, I'm perfectly happy to unwind after a long day with an ice cold Miller Lite (shocker!). I will go to BJ's at some point and review the food, but I'm glad he went there to give an opinion on the beer. It's not my specialty (that being nachos and chicken wings).

We all like to frequent locally owned businesses. This is my hometown, and I love it. I want to see businesses do well, but like Ethan pointed out, we can't all buy local all the time. If I want a pair of jeans, I don't know any local jeans-makers that will stitch them up for me. I don't know any locally owned car companies that will build me a car.

We can't all work for local businesses, either. I've worked for corporate-owned newspapers as well as family owned, and there's really not much difference. Ladies and gentlemen, I've worked for some real stinkers! I once worked for a family owned newspaper in Kansas that treated its employees far worse than Gannett does. I'll never go around saying that Gannett is a wonderful company, but it could be a lot worse. I've been there. We're one of the few large media companies that hasn't had newsroom layoffs (knock on wood!)

If you don't like Velocity or find that its contents don't suit you, it's likely because you don't fit into our target demographic. But don't go around trashing us -- the writers and editors -- because it isn't your cup of tea. I don't like celebrity gossip mags, but I don't assume that the people who write for them are ignorant, younger or less educated than I am. It's just that I enjoy other types of magazines. We are a niche publication that is here to meet a certain market need. My reviews are targeted to a younger audience who aren't foodies, just people who like to go out and eat sometimes and not spend a whole lot of money doing so. That's why my reviews are short and to the point. It isn't because of some Gannett-mandated space requirement. When I've needed more space, I've always gotten it.

The reason I recently joined this forum is to speak up and clear up misunderstandings. Our rival publication has been hounding us for five straight years, making jokes at our expense and treating us like we are idiots. Finally, we've stopped taking it. And that's the same spirit in which Josh and I are speaking up here. ("We're mad as hell, and we're ... OK, not really. )

Also, I enjoy talking about food and reading the threads.

I believe that most of the people on this forum are good people who do know a lot about food, and probably a lot more than I do. I've always had a good time judging contests with Robin. I use this forum as a good source of information.

All I ask is that you remember that we are people, too, not just some nameless corporate tools. We do our jobs the best we can and we take a lot of pride in our work. Please, criticize all you like. But don't attack us personally.

One more thing:

the overall tendency of Velocity to be flippant at the expense of accuracy

Where does that come from? We've never taken accuracy lightly, and I challenge you to name some of these inacuracies.

[Robin Garr]

Hi, Lisa here this time.

You're good folks, Lisa, and I'm good with Josh based on your support alone. We're glad both you folks are here talking with us and want you to feel welcome always. I do hope Josh will waste the time to get his own account, though.

As for Gannett, you know I've got a permanent ****-** about that company, but I think I earned it the old-fashioned way, having had to live through the years of change at Sixth and Broadway and having been there and done that both before and after, seeing and living exactly what made the differences between the Binghams and the 'toids. The Binghams weren't perfect. But woooeeeeee!!!

I eventually concluded that I could not and would not work for that company again, and that I would not encourage friends to do so. But I won't judge you for making a different decision.

Can't we all just get along? Umm ... can we TRY?

As for Gannett, you know I've got a permanent ****-** about that company, but I think I earned it the old-fashioned way, having had to live through the years of change at Sixth and Broadway and having been there and done that both before and after, seeing and living exactly what made the differences between the Binghams and the 'toids. The Binghams weren't perfect. But woooeeeeee!!!

While knowing nothing of your recent medical procedure (and being of the queasy type, not wanting to), I'd like to suggest that harboring resentments for an extended period can lead to health issues. God knows the resent carried over my ex did nothing but make me sick. Maybe it's time to let the anger over the CJ/Gannet go... how many decades has it been already? It can't be good for you ... and frankly it always seems a little unbecoming. This town is big enough to have Gannet and a Hotbytes. Which is a good thing -- you seem to have well-deserved monopoly on the other local media (leo, voice, etc.) Perhaps one day we'll have a dozen very qualified restaurant critics to provide varying, educated viewpoints. To your health!

Can't we just agree to disagree and be happy about it?

Can't we all just get along? Umm ... can we TRY?

I've got the perfect compromise: Visit BJ's, order one of their very tasty pizzas (I recommend the Buffalo Chicken), and have a Kentucky Ale (on draft as a guest beer). Now you are supporting a chain, a mall(!), and a local brewery! You're having your pie and eating it too!

In addition, call me a snob if you must, but it should be mentioned that BJ's has Avery IPA, Great Lakes Elliot Ness, & Lindemans Framboise on draft and one of the best selection of Belgian bottled beer in all of Louisville. Oh yeah, and their own beers are pretty good too, even if they are brewed in Reno.

[Robin Garr]

Can't we just agree to disagree and be happy about it?

Depends.

[Robin Garr]

To your health!

Thanks, Bill. I'll accept the wish and pass on commenting about the rest. I handle stress and resentment pretty well, really, but since you don't know me, I'll gently suggest that it's probably best to hold that kind of diagnosis privately rather than express it in front of a few thousand local foodies. I'll meet you for a BJ's beer with Jeremy and the rest of the gang, though!

[Robin Garr]

I've got the perfect compromise: Visit BJ's, order one of their very tasty pizzas (I recommend the Buffalo Chicken), and have a Kentucky Ale (on draft as a guest beer). Now you are supporting a chain, a mall(!), and a local brewery! You're having your pie and eating it too!

Okay, you old snob!

When shall we do it? I'm READY.

Lisa and Josh,

Fair or unfair, you can expect to be labeled corporate suck ups when working for a publication that prides itself on being the end all be all hip rag produced by a huge corporate entity. That's just the way it goes. Unintentionally or not the few times I've read the Velocity that attitude seems to "ooze" from a lot of the articles. You've gotta put food on the table though, I know I dont agree with a ton of things my employer does.

Also I think it was Josh stating that people on here are not as brash as they are in person. I'm quite reserved on here compared to my in person personality and even on other message boards. True I use a "handle" on other boards but it's more than common knowledge that on those boards who I am in real life. I also try to stay out of the too heated frays on here though because Robin would go insane trying to go edit all of my cussing out before I cooled down and did it myself.

Flippant instead of accurate?

Already answered that one: The unmerited use of "snob" three times in the original article.

My reviews are targeted to a younger audience who aren't foodies, just people who like to go out and eat sometimes and not spend a whole lot of money doing so.

And it seems like there's a ton of them out there. I was with a group that went to Texas Roadhouse in dupont the other night. My first time there. The food was okay, nothing remarkable, but the place was packed to the gills. 30 minute wait. All age groups. My uneducated guess is there are a lot more TR types out there than "foodies", and definitely a market for the type of review you are writing. Of course, not a scientific sample. Only an observation.

Snob: one who blatantly imitates, fawningly admires, or vulgarly seeks association with those regarded as social superiors a: one who tends to rebuff, avoid, or ignore those regarded as inferior b: one who has an offensive air of superiority in matters of knowledge or taste.

If this term had been left out of this review, I don't think it would have received any notice. The problem with the use of this term is that it simultaneously accomplishes two things. It celebrates ignorance and denigrates those who are knowledgeable or have a real interest in a subject. When did we as a society make the decision to equate a high level of knowledge on a particular subject with snobbery? Look at the definition, it's not an accurate characterization of people who take the time to learn and study a subject.

When I was younger I knew people who were history or science "buffs". We didn't call them snobs. I have to constantly refer to myself as a wine geek and foodie to preempt the inevitable "food snob" or "wine snob". What is snobby about having a bookshelf full of wine texts? What is snobby about spending a decade in the restaurant business and then making it my avocation when I moved on to a new career? Since when did it become cool to know nothing? But, that is how they want us . . . mindless drones lining up at the big box store to buy what they tell us.

When I have the misfortune of coming across Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, or their types, it is not long before I hear terms like "elitist" used to describe people who earned graduate degrees. Then it reminds me of how many times (more than one hundred, easily) I have been called "elitist" by members of this forum because I prefer to spend my money in locally owned establishments rather than large corporate chains. Does that make me an elitist? Is Roger Baylor a beer "snob"? I don't think so, and I understand why the use of the term evoked his reaction to the review.

I don't give a hang about BJ's or Velocity. As Lisa has already stated, the Velocity reviews are not targeted for people like me. But, Josh made a choice to take an angle his piece on BJ's, and as such he took the risk of raising the ire of those he chose to poke with his pen. They poked back. As someone who has been called a snob and elitist simply because I like tasty food and interesting wines, I can relate.