New urbanism, same old Chinese

Years ago, people built homes away from the city with small yards, commons spaces, alleys....It became St. James Court, Belgravia, old Louisville.
Then people moved out further, east. Small yards, common spaces, alleys, more businesses this time. That became Cherokee, the Original Highlands. Clifton. Butchertown.
Everyone moving further away from the city. Into something new.
After that, driveways, big yards, same looking houses began to sprout up further out. Houses kept getting bigger and bigger - those who can afford 5,000+ square feet homes, acreage. And very far out. River Road, Glenview are just north of Norton Commons.
Look how far out Lake Forest is.
There's not the density of population. Not the crime. You don't have people who don't repair their homes; let the grass go for 2 months; shoot people; break into cars.
I love coming into Louisville. Grew up in the Highlands. So glad to see my grandmother not having to walk around her house on Morton. Bars opened until 4:00 am? All the little shops gone that she frequented. Neighborhoods change. Times change.
Norton Commons is a convenient location where you can safely walk and ride your bike every day. Almost every house is different, whether color or design.
I got tired of cutting my grass. I didn't mind it so much but I hadn't planted all the perennials and bushes that I wanted. We either sat on the front porch or the back porch. Only ventured in the yard to cut the grass and pull weeds. So much time. Finally quit cutting the back yard every time. Every other time; cutting the front grass every 3 or 4 days. Then quit cutting the top of the back yard; doing that every 2 times
I get it that some people don't like or want to live in Norton Commons. Don't. But a lot of people get it when they visit. I guess that's why we see more and more people at every event - last night, live music block party - thank you Tea Station. Tonight, movie on the lawn. Porch parties tomorrow:-)

[Robin Garr]

Thanks for your thoughts, Ellen. I like your long view, and the way you talk about family and history and nostalgia. I don't mind at all that Norton Commons is for you.

I do have to say, though ...

There's not the density of population. Not the crime. You don't have people who don't repair their homes; let the grass go for 2 months; shoot people; break into cars.

This point of view does, I think, help explain the difference between people who prefer places like Norton Commons or Lake Forest and those who prefer to live in the city.

It's worth noting that the existence of places like Lake Forest and Norton Commons contributes to places like Old Louisville being the way they are today, as much as or more than those suburbs are the product of conditions in the city.

[Robin Garr]

It's worth noting that the existence of places like Lake Forest and Norton Commons contributes to places like Old Louisville being the way they are today, as much as or more than those suburbs are the product of conditions in the city.

Okay, help me understand. It contributes in what way? Divides the gene pool into separate, different groups?

I've been following this thread with interest but did not feel compelled to contribute until now. I have lived in Crescent Hill for 16 years. Some of the beautiful old homes in my neighborhood have been divided into apartments. A very few properties are not as well-maintained as I would like. Some of the alleys get a little unkempt at times. My neighborhood Kroger has a clientele that is "interesting" to say the least. There is some crime, but not much. That's life in the "urban services district."

I love living in the "city" but understand that it's not for everyone. But when I read or hear generalizations like I've seen here, it makes me question the knowledge of the person making those statements.

It reminds me of the whole "I wouldn't work/eat/go downtown" debate. Many of my friends/acquaintances who make those statements haven't been downtown in 20 years (except maybe to zip in and out for a U of L game at the Yum! Center). When I give them the viewpoint of someone who worked downtown for over 25 years, who goes to church downtown and eats at downtown restaurants, they flat out don't believe me. What can you do in a situation like that?

It's worth noting that the existence of places like Lake Forest and Norton Commons contributes to places like Old Louisville being the way they are today, as much as or more than those suburbs are the product of conditions in the city.

Okay, help me understand. It contributes in what way? Divides the gene pool into separate, different groups?

The growth of the suburbs is the direct cause of the decline of the city and its old, urban neighborhoods.

It's largely a historical argument, which is why I said places like Lake Forest and Norton Commons. Since those places weren't around for the first few decades of suburbanization. But they're the heirs of the process, and benefit from the dynamic it created.

Do people choose to live in Lake Forest because Old Louisville is (perceived as) dangerous and run down? Sure. But it's also true that Old Louisville is that way because folks have been eschewing it for points east for the last 60 years.

[Robin Garr]

The growth of the suburbs is the direct cause of the decline of the city and its old, urban neighborhoods.

White flight. But that generation is dying off, Jeff, and the combination of different attitudes by Millennials (and others) combined with an overall trend toward rising gas prices is starting an oppositional flow back to the city. I was amazed, during the Norton Commons flap, to look up some comparables and discovered to my amazement that you'll probably pay more to live in the Highlands or Crescent Hill now that you would to buy a new-made-to-look-old house in Norton Commons.

It's also sad but true that suburban demographics are changing fast, at least spottily. In Lyndon and the Westport Road area out to Goose Creek/Hurstbourne, minority and Latino populations are rising fast, and income data is starting to look more like parts of the urban core. Crime still isn't bad, but there are spots of gang and drug activity and graffiti. Sounds kinda "urban" to me, yet there are people living in those neighborhoods who are afraid to go "downtown." Odd, isn't it?

I work in some pretty expensive homes throughout the city. The one I am currently working in is over 6,000 sq feet in Oldham Co. I'd have a hard time counting the number of times my car or the homeowner's car has been broken into sitting in the drive way. Many of the neighbors mailboxes have been baseball batted down. Every week the HOA sends out an email about the rash of break ins. Crime can be anywhere. I lived for years on Cherokee Road, parked on the street, never once was vandalized. (Shrugs) go figure.

I will add that I do not consider NC and Lake Forest to be of the same ilk. Lake Forest is simply a high end development with expensive homes all of a certain # of sq. footage or more. NC promotes itself as a "community " with its own businesses where everyone can live, eat, work and recreate with in the same 2 or 3 square miles. In an ideal situation (at least for NCers ) you'd never have to leave, it's all right here! There is a reason why that is appealing to some and (yes) creepy to others.

In an ideal situation (at least for NCers ) you'd never have to leave, it's all right here! There is a reason why that is appealing to some and (yes) creepy to others.

A former work colleague of mine moved to NC a few years ago from the St. Matthews area. When I asked her how she liked living there, her reply was "I love it...everything that you need is right here." My reply was "I guess it depends on what you need."

I do get the appeal of NC over Lake Forest, Polo Fields and the other upscale developments that stretch north and east.

A former work colleague of mine moved to NC a few years ago from the St. Matthews area. When I asked her how she liked living there, her reply was "I love it...everything that you need is right here." My reply was "I guess it depends on what you need."

I guess for me a better question would have been what do you have in NC that you didn't have in St. Matthews? To me it certainly seems like you have less in NC. The only possible except that would be traffic which I'm sure you have less of in NC but you have to commute a lot more to get anyplace.

I do get the appeal of NC over Lake Forest, Polo Fields and the other upscale developments that stretch north and east.

While I would never want to live in NC (or Lake Forest are Polo Fields for that matter) I certainly do see the benefits of it over Lake Forest or the Polo Fields developments. In the first place it's a much more walkable community where you can stroll down the streets and enjoy an evening walk. It also has some restaurants and shopping available locally instead of having to make a major commute to get to anything. Stores are finally moving closer to Lake Forest but Polo Fields is still in the boonies compared to any place you go shopping.

Getting back to the Tea Station Bistro for a moment, I'm extremely disappointed to hear that they've (apparently) turned into another cookie cutter "Chinese" restaurant. We were dining there quite regularly as recently as...ohhhhhh...maybe a little over a year ago and found it to be very good. When it went through the ownership change we took a break from it, thinking there might be some growing pains...not sure we'll even waste or time now. Has anyone had any -positive- experiences there recently ?