Chick-Fil-A lays it on the line: They don't like gay couples

For me, this draws the line:

I praised them for facillity, quality and hospitality. Was willing to look over internal policies- why judge?

But it would seem they have gone on the attack, shoving thier beliefs into my chicken sandwich. All of the sudden- the flavor is not so sweet, the facillity- disingenuous, the hospitality- bigoted.

I, for one, am a proponent of same-sex marriage- but I would never allow such a view to affect the way that I treat anyone. To do so is a gross violation of the most cardinal rule of hospitality.

And I'm pretty sure God was clear on the 'be kind to one another' thing...

+1

I made no mention of christians,

The subject of this thread is Christian advocacy as practiced by the owners of Chick-Fil-A.

so what is your point other than to prove bad grammar

You are welcome to point out my grammar and typographical mistakes whenever you see them. Thanks for your help toward improving public discourse.

and bad ideas go hand in hand?

Which bad ideas are you talking about?

I don't understand how I'm uninterested in a real public debate.

You said you weren't interested - using an explicit statement.

I'm merely interested in supporting the human rights of those I love and care for,

As are we all.

and if that means not being willing to listen to or engage people who commit hateful actions, then it is what it is.

That's the rub isn't it? Christians don't see their positions as hating. And instead of trying to understand their philosophy and how their advocacy derives from it, you close your mind and call their positions hateful. It's easy to listen to folks you agree with, it's hard to listen to folks who have completely different values. And in a truly pluralistic society, there are gonna be lots of folks who disagree.

But please don't confuse this with some unwillingness to engage public debate

Again, you said you weren't interested in debating this subject, e.g. anti gay marriage hate.

Here is what you said:

Furthermore, I don't care to have a public debate on this topic. I care to call them haters, point out their hating ways, and hope a God does exist (and that he is vengeful).

To me, this looks like evidence of a closed mind on this topic. So, consider me officially confused.

or consider it evidence of what is wrong with the academy. You really don't know me well enough to arrive at either of those conclusions.

Yeah I don't know you well enough to generalize about you. You are not the only member of the academy that I read though.

And, if you are making that claim about the academy, then you are making the same gross generalization of which you are accusing me.

Gross generalization? I'm just going by what you say. Sorry if it's uncomfortable when I hold up a mirror.

And as far as the academy goes.... How many conservatives do you know in your department? How many libertarians? How many Christians? And of those you know, how many feel they can freely express their views without being shouted down as haters?

Matthew, there is no animosity from my end. I genuinely like and respect you. In fact, your willingness to express doubt is why I think a dialog with you is worthwhile. Please keep right on jerking that knot in my tail when you see that I am overgeneralizing.

That's the rub isn't it? Christians don't see their positions as hating. And instead of trying to understand their philosophy and how their advocacy derives from it, you close your mind and call their positions hateful. It's easy to listen to folks you agree with, it's hard to listen to folks who have completely different values. And in a truly pluralistic society, there are gonna be lots of folks who disagree.

We have to be very careful here Steve. The Nazi's didn't see their position as hateful either, nor any of the myriad of slave owners through the ages, nor conquerers, crusaders, and so on. Just because a group doesn't view what they do as negative, does not make it positive. The important thing, as I hope is your point, is that we stop to evaluate the motivations, actions, and perspectives of a group before we condemn it. It is still within the right and duty of a society to evaluate the behavior of a smaller unit within that society and to exalt or condemn it based on its overall value to the society. So even if the group sees what they do as right and good, it may not ultimately mesh with the general mood of the culture and they may therefore be ostracized or rejected. I think the KKK is a pretty good working example of this.

We have to be very careful here Steve. The Nazi's didn't see their position as hateful either, nor any of the myriad of slave owners through the ages, nor conquerers, crusaders, and so on. Just because a group doesn't view what they do as negative, does not make it positive. The important thing, as I hope is your point, is that we stop to evaluate the motivations, actions, and perspectives of a group before we condemn it. It is still within the right and duty of a society to evaluate the behavior of a smaller unit within that society and to exalt or condemn it based on its overall value to the society. So even if the group sees what they do as right and good, it may not ultimately mesh with the general mood of the culture and they may therefore be ostracized or rejected. I think the KKK is a pretty good working example of this.

Interesting. You are comparing Chick-Fil-A to Nazis, slave owners, and the KKK.

Can you take your analysis a few steps further? If you'd care to, compare and contrast how the Christian groups supported by the owners of Chik-Fil-A are the same and different from Nazis, slave owners, and the KKK?

Steve, you know exactly what Ronnie means. To put it in the terms you've put it in is a brilliant way of discrediting Ronnie and ending the discussion right there, though - to make it look like Ronnie's calling Chik Fil-A a bunch of slave-owning Nazis. You know that's not what he means. You know.

I invoke Godwin's law here: When Hitler or Nazis are invoked as analogies, the discussion has officially been declared over.

Steve, you know exactly what Ronnie means. To put it in the terms you've put it in is a brilliant way of discrediting Ronnie and ending the discussion right there, though - to make it look like Ronnie's calling Chik Fil-A a bunch of slave-owning Nazis. You know that's not what he means. You know.

Well, I try not to over generalize things and have recently been chastised for doing so. So, I thought it best to ask Ronnie to clarify exactly what he meant.

I'm sorry if I offended you somehow, as that is not my intent.

I invoke Godwin's law here: When Hitler or Nazis are invoked as analogies, the discussion has officially been declared over.

As Ronnie's intent appears honest and his opinions are presented in good faith, I'm willing to listen if he is willing to continue.

In other words, I don't think we are being trolled.

Steve, you always bring some great debate. Of course we've had this discourse before, but it really won't ever get old for me until the prejudice stops. I don't think it's wrong at all to fight against companies that openly discriminate against something so ridiculous as the choice of who you give your romantic heart to. Tell me other restaurants that are doing this, and I'll say the same for them. Maybe someone can initiate an excel spread similar to yours for half-priced wines? I'd read that, and follow suit. Down with bigots. Chik-Fil-A doesn't serve anything I can't find elsewhere at the same value.

I'm sorry if I offended you somehow, as that is not my intent.

No, you didn't offend me - I just didn't enjoy the tactic you were deploying. And if you ever do offend me, consider that Half-Price Wine list you created your get-out-of-jail-free card.

Steve, you always bring some great debate. Of course we've had this discourse before, but it really won't ever get old for me until the prejudice stops. I don't think it's wrong at all to fight against companies that openly discriminate against something so ridiculous as the choice of who you give your romantic heart to. Tell me other restaurants that are doing this, and I'll say the same for them. Maybe someone can initiate an excel spread similar to yours for half-priced wines? I'd read that, and follow suit. Down with bigots. Chik-Fil-A doesn't serve anything I can't find elsewhere at the same value.

Well, to be fair, your Food Dad started this thread, so the accolades should go to him.

You are free to support or not support whatever businesses you choose, for whatever reasons suit you.
The thing is, the next thing you know, someone well get a law passed, and Chick-Fil-A will have to choose between their principals or their business. Kinda like Catholic Hospitals are being forced to do now because if new healthcare regulations.

The problem is that if a government has the power to tell Chick-Fil-A to sell franchises to gay couples, will also have the power to tell a LGBT Repertory Community Theater that they must include Christians, or force a gay couple that needs to rent a room in their home to accept a fundamentalist border.

I would prefer a Government that is less intrusive, and a citizenry that supports freedom of association while being more tolerant of differing philosophies in polite company. We could call it the "Can't we all get along" party.

I'm sorry if I offended you somehow, as that is not my intent.

No, you didn't offend me - I just didn't enjoy the tactic you were deploying. And if you ever do offend me, consider that Half-Price Wine list you created your get-out-of-jail-free card.

I do desire to be an honest debater, so I appreciate any input where it appears my standards are slipping. So, welcome to the party!

And thanks for the kudos on the wine list! I consider it an ongoing apology to the forum for arguing about stuff that's not food related.

Steve, you always bring some great debate. Of course we've had this discourse before, but it really won't ever get old for me until the prejudice stops. I don't think it's wrong at all to fight against companies that openly discriminate against something so ridiculous as the choice of who you give your romantic heart to. Tell me other restaurants that are doing this, and I'll say the same for them. Maybe someone can initiate an excel spread similar to yours for half-priced wines? I'd read that, and follow suit. Down with bigots. Chik-Fil-A doesn't serve anything I can't find elsewhere at the same value.

Well, to be fair, your Food Dad started this thread, so the accolades should go to him.

I know, I'm proud of him .

You are free to support or not support whatever businesses you choose, for whatever reasons suit you.
The thing is, the next thing you know, someone well get a law passed, and Chick-Fil-A will have to choose between their principals or their business.

This doesn't make me cry. What's makes me sad is that my uncles had to wait for 30 yrs in the most functional and wholesome union I've ever known, and plan a trip to NY to secure their nuptials (which they did this past fall, YAY!). and suffer extreme "hateful" (don't even try to say that gay bashing doesn't have a LONG history of hate) discrimination for at least a couple of those decades - one of which resulted in the demise of their Big O tire franchise when the Harrodsburg hillbillies found out what was going on their bedroom. I don't have the same fond feelings for processed chicken purveyors at all.

I would prefer a Government that is less intrusive, and a citizenry that supports freedom of association while being more tolerant of differing philosophies in polite company. We could call it the "Can't we all get along" party.

Good luck.

Now will you PLEASE begin a 1/2 priced pint link, please? And thanks for posting all that you do, Steve. Honestly. You always makes me think.

This doesn't make me cry.

The loss of anyone's freedom of conscience should at least make you a little sad, or worried that your freedom might be next.

What's makes me sad is that my uncles had to wait for 30 yrs in the most functional and wholesome union I've ever known, and plan a trip to NY to secure their nuptials (which they did this past fall, YAY!). and suffer extreme "hateful" (don't even try to say that gay bashing doesn't have a LONG history of hate) discrimination for at least a couple of those decades - one of which resulted in the demise of their Big O tire franchise when the Harrodsburg hillbillies found out what was going on their bedroom. I don't have the same fond feelings for processed chicken purveyors at all.

There is a lot to unpack here. So I'll start with congratulations to your uncles. Seriously, my best wishes and my hope that they live happily ever after.

Now back to the assholiness...

It's too bad about their Big-O business, but how does it help them if the same thing is done to Chik-Fil-A?

I would prefer a Government that is less intrusive, and a citizenry that supports freedom of association while being more tolerant of differing philosophies in polite company. We could call it the "Can't we all get along" party.

Good luck.

Yeah, everything has to start with a dream. Mine starts with not giving the government even more power over our lives, and then after that, taking some back.

[Now will you PLEASE begin a 1/2 priced pint link, please? And thanks for posting all that you do, Steve. Honestly. You always makes me think.

I'd be willing to do this. Is a half price pint a common promotion? This could be the start of something big!