when restaurants refuse substitutions

i tell it like i see it. some people here can't handle that.

With apologies to Inigo Montoya, you keep using that phrase. I don't think it means what you think it means, at least to "some people here."

...so you don't know the facts. i'm all about truth and facts... you jumped on judging me, not knowing all the facts.

AM, my beef, and possibly David's and others, with you was that you were not forthcoming with the truth and all the facts in your original 2-3 posts. That is what made your original negative post about Ivor / Harvest, seem like a "drive-by" without justification. I think if you would have went into details about the situation, while still protecting the identity of the diner, this whole discussion might have went more smoothly. For a person who is "all about the truth and facts" you posted a very negative review without providing facts or reason behind them.

With that said, refusing to omit crispy fried onions on a steak, does seem very lacking in the desire to satisfy customers,,,as the request is neither extreme nor would it drastically alter the integrity of the original dish.

Thanks. DD

Honestly, I've never ordered a patty melt in my life as when I see those words on a menu my eyes keep going down the page. I wrote bison burger in my journal after getting home that evening. But that's a point about the availablilty of raw onions. If that was the case I wish that had been communicated. Some others have posted in a point well taken about the importance of conveying the "why" part

Really, you keep a journal about what you eat?

Well, I don't fall into either of these categories, and quite frankly, I think you made a huge sweeping statement. I know, and have been told over and over again that my food is excellent. Everything we do is top quality. I was recently held captive on a very small island where there were two places to eat. One was my bed and breakfast and the other was a pub. The bed and breakfast wanted $25 per entree, $4.95 for fries. I don't do $25 entrees, never have done and never will. I just cannot bring myself to pay that much money for a piece of protein. My point is, that the cheapest thing I could order was a jerk chicken sanwich at $12, it was no better, infact, inferior to my chicken sandwich at $4.75. Now, I am making a really healthy profit on this, so what the hell kind of profit was he making at $12? Of course I expect to pay more in an indoor restaurant, and, yes, the atmosphere is important, but I resent being put into the "diner" category where my food is not that great but it is convenient; and I am sure there are a lot of business owners on the forum who feel the same way.

There are really two different types of restaurants, one would be something like a diner where you don't necessarily go because the food is all that great, but because it's convenient and they'll make you what you want. The other is a restaurant that is a dining destination where patrons visit because of the food/atmosphere the chefs/owners are producing. When you make requests at a restaurant of this caliber, where your alteration is based purely on presumed flavor preferences and not dietary restrictions or allergies, then I believe the restaurant has the right to protect the integrity of the food they are producing by politely declining the alteration.

As for people with severe dietary restrictions and allergies it is their responsibility to be informed about their restaurant choices as well as inform restaurants of their needs prior to their arrival so that the restaurant can accommodate.

It's a two way street, people help restaurants and keep them in the loop and they will happily help you if they can or in some cases let you know that they can't help you, so that you don't waste your time going there.

Well, I don't fall into either of these categories, and quite frankly, I think you made a huge sweeping statement. I know, and have been told over and over again that my food is excellent. Everything we do is top quality. I was recently held captive on a very small island where there were two places to eat. One was my bed and breakfast and the other was a pub. The bed and breakfast wanted $25 per entree, $4.95 for fries. I don't do $25 entrees, never have done and never will. I just cannot bring myself to pay that much money for a piece of protein. My point is, that the cheapest thing I could order was a jerk chicken sanwich at $12, it was no better, infact, inferior to my chicken sandwich at $4.75. Now, I am making a really healthy profit on this, so what the hell kind of profit was he making at $12? Of course I expect to pay more in an indoor restaurant, and, yes, the atmosphere is important, but I resent being put into the "diner" category where my food is not that great but it is convenient; and I am sure there are a lot of business owners on the forum who feel the same way.

There are really two different types of restaurants, one would be something like a diner where you don't necessarily go because the food is all that great, but because it's convenient and they'll make you what you want. The other is a restaurant that is a dining destination where patrons visit because of the food/atmosphere the chefs/owners are producing. When you make requests at a restaurant of this caliber, where your alteration is based purely on presumed flavor preferences and not dietary restrictions or allergies, then I believe the restaurant has the right to protect the integrity of the food they are producing by politely declining the alteration.

As for people with severe dietary restrictions and allergies it is their responsibility to be informed about their restaurant choices as well as inform restaurants of their needs prior to their arrival so that the restaurant can accommodate.

It's a two way street, people help restaurants and keep them in the loop and they will happily help you if they can or in some cases let you know that they can't help you, so that you don't waste your time going there.

If your food is that good then I'm sure a lot of the people that are going are going because of the quality of the food not just the convience factor. I'm saying restaurants like waffle house, denny's applebees, etc. Where there is no real chef and the majority of the employees could care less about the quality of the food.

I was thinking about the same thing! Leaving a minor ingredient out of a dish is no different than having the waiter immediately ask you if you want fresh ground pepper on a dish before you you've even tasted it! If the chef prepared a perfect dish that cannot be modified why do they even offer salt and pepper?

Here's how it is handled at Mr. Bones, a joint on Amelia Island that we frequent when we're at our place in that area:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.156125637777670.39175.149277648462469#!/photo.php?fbid=156125957777638&set=a.156125637777670.39175.149277648462469&type=1&theater

I wrote bison burger in my journal after getting home that evening...

Really, you keep a journal about what you eat?

Yes, along with whatever other details of the day strike me. For example, we went to Brasserie Dietrich on December 26, 1997 and here's an excerpt:

"I had the duck in a wine sauce with scalloped potatoes and bread. I had a salad as well and a glass of Knob Creek 100 proof whiskey. Diane had a glass of Jameson and crab cakes."

If we are going to a restaurant I sometimes scan back to see what I had the last time or two and make it a point to try something different.

Ryan, got u, I understand your comment now. Actually, talking about Denny's I had only been there once in Virgina yonks ago, and we stopped for lunch on our way up to Detroit. I had the healthy option, chicken sandwich with avocado and it was awful. The place was packed, it really makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall when I see places serving mediocre food get all the business. The average American is a sheep, heading to the corporate chains without an ounce of individuality.

Well, I don't fall into either of these categories, and quite frankly, I think you made a huge sweeping statement. I know, and have been told over and over again that my food is excellent. Everything we do is top quality. I was recently held captive on a very small island where there were two places to eat. One was my bed and breakfast and the other was a pub. The bed and breakfast wanted $25 per entree, $4.95 for fries. I don't do $25 entrees, never have done and never will. I just cannot bring myself to pay that much money for a piece of protein. My point is, that the cheapest thing I could order was a jerk chicken sanwich at $12, it was no better, infact, inferior to my chicken sandwich at $4.75. Now, I am making a really healthy profit on this, so what the hell kind of profit was he making at $12? Of course I expect to pay more in an indoor restaurant, and, yes, the atmosphere is important, but I resent being put into the "diner" category where my food is not that great but it is convenient; and I am sure there are a lot of business owners on the forum who feel the same way.

There are really two different types of restaurants, one would be something like a diner where you don't necessarily go because the food is all that great, but because it's convenient and they'll make you what you want. The other is a restaurant that is a dining destination where patrons visit because of the food/atmosphere the chefs/owners are producing. When you make requests at a restaurant of this caliber, where your alteration is based purely on presumed flavor preferences and not dietary restrictions or allergies, then I believe the restaurant has the right to protect the integrity of the food they are producing by politely declining the alteration.

As for people with severe dietary restrictions and allergies it is their responsibility to be informed about their restaurant choices as well as inform restaurants of their needs prior to their arrival so that the restaurant can accommodate.

It's a two way street, people help restaurants and keep them in the loop and they will happily help you if they can or in some cases let you know that they can't help you, so that you don't waste your time going there.

If your food is that good then I'm sure a lot of the people that are going are going because of the quality of the food not just the convience factor. I'm saying restaurants like waffle house, denny's applebees, etc. Where there is no real chef and the majority of the employees could care less about the quality of the food.

I wrote bison burger in my journal after getting home that evening...

Really, you keep a journal about what you eat?

Yes, along with whatever other details of the day strike me. For example, we went to Brasserie Dietrich on December 26, 1997 and here's an excerpt:

"I had the duck in a wine sauce with scalloped potatoes and bread. I had a salad as well and a glass of Knob Creek 100 proof whiskey. Diane had a glass of Jameson and crab cakes."

If we are going to a restaurant I sometimes scan back to see what I had the last time or two and make it a point to try something different.

Lonnie,
Please print more excerpts. Sounds like you have a wealth of culinary history. I want to hear more.

Yes Lonnie, that is pretty interesting, particularly to see what foods were in fashion at a certain time.

I wrote bison burger in my journal after getting home that evening...

Really, you keep a journal about what you eat?

Yes, along with whatever other details of the day strike me. For example, we went to Brasserie Dietrich on December 26, 1997 and here's an excerpt:

"I had the duck in a wine sauce with scalloped potatoes and bread. I had a salad as well and a glass of Knob Creek 100 proof whiskey. Diane had a glass of Jameson and crab cakes."

If we are going to a restaurant I sometimes scan back to see what I had the last time or two and make it a point to try something different.

Lonnie,
Please print more excerpts. Sounds like you have a wealth of culinary history. I want to hear more.

...so you don't know the facts. i'm all about truth and facts... you jumped on judging me, not knowing all the facts.

AM, my beef, and possibly David's and others, with you was that you were not forthcoming with the truth and all the facts in your original 2-3 posts. That is what made your original negative post about Ivor / Harvest, seem like a "drive-by" without justification. I think if you would have went into details about the situation, while still protecting the identity of the diner, this whole discussion might have went more smoothly. For a person who is "all about the truth and facts" you posted a very negative review without providing facts or reason behind them.

With that said, refusing to omit crispy fried onions on a steak, does seem very lacking in the desire to satisfy customers,,,as the request is neither extreme nor would it drastically alter the integrity of the original dish.

Thanks. DD

Ding Ding..we have a winner!! Now back to our regularly scheduled program....

Yes Lonnie, that is pretty interesting, particularly to see what foods were in fashion at a certain time.
Please print more excerpts. Sounds like you have a wealth of culinary history. I want to hear more.

I'll be glad to PM anyone who'd be interested if you ask about a particular restaurant. My journal is like a diary, except I'm a man so it's a journal. A small fraction is restaurant related. It goes back to late 1992. Wish I'd started it when I was a teenager instead of well into my 30s. When I posted about Dietrich's I searched on the name of what is probably my favorite restaurant that is no longer around, or certainly one of them, then and excerpted from the first hit I ran across. It's a real coincidence the dish I had that day as it was so similar to a dish I had on the first date my (now) wife and I had in 1983 at Empress of China, that one was in a plum wine sauce. Didn't keep a journal back then but it was an especially memorable evening. Thanks for your interest and I'll PM so as not to get things any more off topic. Always nice to take a trip down memory lane! So many meals, so many calories!

[Robin Garr]

A small fraction is restaurant related. It goes back to late 1992. Wish I'd started it when I was a teenager instead of well into my 30s. When I posted about Dietrich's I searched on the name of what is probably my favorite restaurant that is no longer around, or certainly one of them, then and excerpted from the first hit I ran across. It's a real coincidence the dish I had that day as it was so similar to a dish I had on the first date my (now) wife and I had in 1983 at Empress of China, that one was in a plum wine sauce. Didn't keep a journal back then but it was an especially memorable evening. Thanks for your interest and I'll PM so as not to get things any more off topic. Always nice to take a trip down memory lane! So many meals, so many calories!

The food parts would make a fascinating blog, Lonnie! I'd be delighted to create some space on the HotBytes site and help with the logistics if you should be willing to share it.

And if anyone knows of an establishment that has refused to leave out an ingredient on request, I wish you'd post the name so I can cross them off the list of places we'd consider. Even if I didn't ask for something to be left out I still wouldn't want to patronize a place that refuses this to a customer

LaRosita.

Not true. Family ate there last night. DD (vegan) ask that the sour cream and cheese be omitted from her dish and they accommodated her request, no questions or comments from the server.

True, I've been refused on omissions twice there. Incidents a couple of years apart.

LaRosita.

Not true. Family ate there last night. DD (vegan) ask that the sour cream and cheese be omitted from her dish and they accommodated her request, no questions or comments from the server.

True, I've been refused on omissions twice there. Incidents a couple of years apart.

Unfortunately, I must agree. We only visit LaRosita occasionally due to their unaccommodating substitution policy. For example, I pretty much loathe refried beans. Would putting a scoop of their already available black beans on my plate instead of the refried white beans really bring their operation to a stand still?

During one visit, I basically had to fight the waitress to keep the refried beans off my plate just for the privilege of paying extra for a side of black beans. I don't mind the paying, but I do find the arguing tiresome. It is experiences like this leads my to feel that my business is not appreciated. I can understand a no substitution policy at a chain like Taco Bell, I would think that a locally owned, independent restaurant would be more attuned to customer service.

In contrast, I was in a foursome that visited Seviche last evening. There were no problems with each diner substituting any side items desired, or even adding extra items. Mr. Lamas is noted as an excellent chef, yet he has always accommodated his customers and never places his judgment before theirs. That is why he is successful.