Improving your "community"?

However, it won't be easy after this many years of everyone thinking that they have to buy a car (or even worse...a truck or SUV) & move to the suburbs.

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Some of actually like living in the suburbs, I know I do. Apparently at least one local employer feels the same way. My wifes company (and 30 employees) is moving from "downtown" to Oldham County in April. She is giddy at the prospect of not having to go downtown everyday.

This connects with what I want - city leaders who treat the entire city equally, instead of favoring downtown. The merger passed - PRP is as much a part of the city as 4th street. I suggested to a Glincividual shortly after the merger that e-main should be moved to Ormsby Station where it belonged. The response I got was, well, interesting.

Also i don't know how underpaid our teachers are. Most high school teachers here are making 50-75 grand. How much should a teacher make??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but that's not accurate. A teacher with a Ph.D. and 25+ years of time with JCPS makes just over $75K. I don't think that's average. It takes the average teacher (Rank II) about 8 years of service to get to $50K.

I'd put it this way - it takes 25 years of service to retire with full benefits, so let's assume the median service time is around 12 years. Rank II is probably roughly average (few get to Rank I or doctorate level), so I'd pin average salary somewhere around $57K.

However, I'd also venture that if you did a scatter-plot of salares, you'd find a predominant cluster in the $40K-$50K range. Thus, I opine that "most" teachers make $40K to $50K. That's not a bad salary, but in my opinion it's quite low considering the educational requirements, importance of the job, and time spent (I'm a lawyer, my wife is a JCPS teacher, and she easily works as much as I do).

Also note that private school teachers make 10%-15% less than JCPS, but also generally deal with fewer problem-children and unsupportive homes.

http://web2.jefferson.k12.ky.us/ccg/jcp ... Salary.pdf

It's interesting that we tend to corollate how much one earns with how long one went to school. The people I know who make the most money - most never finished or completed college; they own their own business. Builders, contractors, real estate, and the like. They took a risk and it paid off in the market (they are also much more vulnerable in times such as these). Teacher salaries will settle at what the market will bare - how hard one works isn't often reflected in how much one makes.

It's interesting that we tend to corollate how much one earns with how long one went to school. The people I know who make the most money - most never finished or completed college; they own their own business. Builders, contractors, real estate, and the like. They took a risk and it paid off in the market (they are also much more vulnerable in times such as these). Teacher salaries will settle at what the market will bare - how hard one works isn't often reflected in how much one makes.

Your personal observations are undoubtedly correct. But the plural of anecdote is not data. Larger observational studies show a linear relationship between education and income. Outiers exist, but the data are the data.

I got my information looking up teachers I know on here: http://datacenter.courier-journal.com/g ... /index.php. Admittedly totally unscientific and likely not representative of the majority.

Also i totally agree with mark in that it seems like we are taught that the only way to be successful is by going to college. That is not true. That chart has some meaning but also consider that the majority of highly motivated people will have more schooling. In other words, it is potentially not the schooling that is driving their salary but their motivation in general. You can get a master's degree and be a complete slacker and you are not going to get paid. Or you can be a high school dropout and make millions.

I'm not downing getting an education, i just think at this point the investment for college is getting to the point where it is not worth the return. Obviously if you want to be a doctor, you have no choice. But if you want to start a restaurant...I'd save my money and learn on the job.

Question:
IF Louisville were to get worldwide airline routes, then how would it effect prices of flights? Not only the international flights , but would it spill over into an increase for Domestic routes?

If we start getting stuff like that the price of airfare will probably go up because we would become a hub. Right now our rates are lower than rates from Cincinnati because we have more airlines and thus more competition while Cincinnati is basically all Delta.

....I'd put it this way - it takes 25 years of service to retire with full benefits, so let's assume the median service time is around 12 years. Rank II is probably roughly average (few get to Rank I or doctorate level), so I'd pin average salary somewhere around $57K.....

Looking at this as an average salary adding the fact that they get the same vacation time as students (over 12 weeks per year) and then retire after 25 years of service regardless of age (much earlier than private industry) it's a pretty good deal no matter how you look at it!

It's interesting that we tend to corollate how much one earns with how long one went to school. The people I know who make the most money - most never finished or completed college; they own their own business. Builders, contractors, real estate, and the like. They took a risk and it paid off in the market (they are also much more vulnerable in times such as these). Teacher salaries will settle at what the market will bare - how hard one works isn't often reflected in how much one makes.

Your personal observations are undoubtedly correct. But the plural of anecdote is not data. Larger observational studies show a linear relationship between education and income. Outiers exist, but the data are the data.

I'd say that's an accurate chart over a relatively narrow income range.

Question:
IF Louisville were to get worldwide airline routes, then how would it effect prices of flights? Not only the international flights , but would it spill over into an increase for Domestic routes?

If we start getting stuff like that the price of airfare will probably go up because we would become a hub. Right now our rates are lower than rates from Cincinnati because we have more airlines and thus more competition while Cincinnati is basically all Delta.

....I'd put it this way - it takes 25 years of service to retire with full benefits, so let's assume the median service time is around 12 years. Rank II is probably roughly average (few get to Rank I or doctorate level), so I'd pin average salary somewhere around $57K.....

Looking at this as an average salary adding the fact that they get the same vacation time as students (over 12 weeks per year) and then retire after 25 years of service regardless of age (much earlier than private industry) it's a pretty good deal no matter how you look at it!

I'm pretty sure all that time is not "vacation." Teaching is a competitive marketplace, so I'm sure there's professionalization work to be done, not to mention prep for the next school year, not to mention any summer tasks that are required.

It's interesting that we tend to corollate how much one earns with how long one went to school. The people I know who make the most money - most never finished or completed college; they own their own business. Builders, contractors, real estate, and the like. They took a risk and it paid off in the market (they are also much more vulnerable in times such as these). Teacher salaries will settle at what the market will bare - how hard one works isn't often reflected in how much one makes.

Your personal observations are undoubtedly correct. But the plural of anecdote is not data. Larger observational studies show a linear relationship between education and income. Outiers exist, but the data are the data.

I'd say that's an accurate chart over a relatively narrow income range.

Mark: That's an entirely accurate statement. The data are the data. Here's a slightly broader range. I think the relationship likely exists up to $300-400K/ per year. It would be interesting to see if the relationship still holds at >$500K. Could be different up there. Nonetheless, there seems to be no disputing that education correlates with (but doesn't assure) increasing income in a range that characterizes the prosperous end of the middle class. Those are the kinds of households that when added to a community in large numbers create the tax base that leads to the things people have indicated they want in this thread - mass transit, better public education, new libraries etc. I don't think you can underestimate the impact that more college educated people will have on a community. Just look at the Raleigh Durham Research Triangle region with the highest concentration of PhDs in the country. Forty years ago North Carolina and Kentucky were almost demographically indistinguishable. Big difference now.

Looking at this as an average salary adding the fact that they get the same vacation time as students (over 12 weeks per year) and then retire after 25 years of service regardless of age (much earlier than private industry) it's a pretty good deal no matter how you look at it!

Mark,

Using my former spouse as an example...who last year was one of four finalists for Minnesota Teacher of the Year, I can assure you that the majority of the 12 weeks a year they are not in the classroom is certainly not a "vacation".

Concerning the retirement after 25 years of service, I'll use this as an opportunity to climb onto my retired civil servant soap box. There have been numerous studies done over the years which indicate that a very high percentage of civil servants are paid significantly less than their public sector counter parts. Given the sorry state of compensation in many private/parochial schools, teachers may not be the perfect example to use to make my point but I think most people would agree that they are deserving of this benefit.

Question:
IF Louisville were to get worldwide airline routes, then how would it effect prices of flights? Not only the international flights , but would it spill over into an increase for Domestic routes?

If we start getting stuff like that the price of airfare will probably go up because we would become a hub. Right now our rates are lower than rates from Cincinnati because we have more airlines and thus more competition while Cincinnati is basically all Delta.

I don't know how things are anymore...I now avoid flying like I avoid getting the flu...but as recently as two years ago Louisville enjoyed some of the best airfares in the country.

Looking at this as an average salary adding the fact that they get the same vacation time as students (over 12 weeks per year) and then retire after 25 years of service regardless of age (much earlier than private industry) it's a pretty good deal no matter how you look at it!

Mark,

Using my former spouse as an example...who last year was one of four finalists for Minnesota Teacher of the Year, I can assure you that the majority of the 12 weeks a year they are not in the classroom is certainly not a "vacation".

Concerning the retirement after 25 years of service, I'll use this as an opportunity to climb onto my retired civil servant soap box. There have been numerous studies done over the years which indicate that a very high percentage of civil servants are paid significantly less than their public sector counter parts. Given the sorry state of compensation in many private/parochial schools, teachers may not be the perfect example to use to make my point but I think most people would agree that they are deserving of this benefit.

Ditto this (and Matthew D's comment above). My wife's holiday "vacation" and summer "vacation" are decidedly not vacations, for the most part. Toss in late nights and weekends spent lesson planning, grading papers, dealing with parental issues, parent/teacher conferences, attending basketball games, etc. etc. etc., and most teachers spend as much or more time working as anyone else.

Remember too that teachers don't get vacation time like most jobs, so net that out of the summer "vacation," and also go through a lot more to get sick days.

I have no doubt that some teachers truly do take that time away from school as vacation, but good, productive teachers that serve this community do not.