Free-standing Market Place?

Likewise,good beer and good conversation are hard to beat. Lets make a point to have pint soon. Off topic,but currently boycotting Sergios.

Well if you're boycotting Sergio's....I'm boycotting Sergio's (psssssst...why are we boycotting Sergio's)

I knew I shouldnt have brought that up... I was "Sergioed"(creative pricing strategy?) one too many times. I am not saying that I am never going back but.... we can discuss it over some bad whiskey.
Lets move on, and try to keep this thread on topic.

Likewise,good beer and good conversation are hard to beat. Lets make a point to have pint soon. Off topic,but currently boycotting Sergios.

Well if you're boycotting Sergio's....I'm boycotting Sergio's (psssssst...why are we boycotting Sergio's)

I knew I shouldnt have brought that up... I was "Sergioed"(creative pricing strategy?) one too many times. I am not saying that I am never going back but.... we can discuss it over some bad whiskey.
Lets move on, and try to keep this thread on topic.

Moving along.

HEY ! I know...we could start a farmers market that served beer.

HEY ! I know...we could start a farmers market that served beer.

I'm in! Not that I have any capital to offer to the startup....

Yep, thats the constant complaint I hear about markets. Without sounding like too much of an ahole here,its luxury spending. There is no need to go to a farmers market. You can get everything you need at a bigbox monster store. This goes back to perceived value thing I was talking about. If you want something enough,you will either find a way to buy it,trade for it or make it. As a side note,there are programs out there that offer vouchers to lower income families to go to the market and good produce. Aside from knowing what to do with some of that produce, and the logistics of getting across town to make it to the market, it seems it only helps out a small percentage of people.

Maybe this should be another thread (or a conversation over pints), but I started thinking about this thread earlier tonight when I was flipping through The Value of Nothing at Carmichael's. I was flipping more than reading closely, but the author was building around a point that markets based around profit and not need are fundamentally flawed (and abusive).

It's easy to see how a farmer can charge what seems to be an outrageous amount for his/her produce when you factor in all the hands in the profit cookie jar. John, I've seen you use the word overhead multiple times. I can't imagine what the overhead is for a farmer, but I can imagine what its like trying to do ethical business in a world where everyone is out for their his/her (un)fair share. It's easy, but wrong I would think, to consider the high charge to be a result of the farmer being greedy(as some people do).

I think you've made these same points (in different words), but reading this book tonight really got me thinking about it. No matter what the farmer's motivations are - he/she is still living in the world of capitalism. So, I've got X dollars every month, and everybody I'm doing business with is trying to take as much as that X as possible. Except a select group of farmers trying to do business differently. But, for whatever reason, when it comes time for me to divide up my X dollars I somehow justify not being able to support these farmers - or at least to the extent I would like. Just a bunch of farmers fighting an uphill battle against the man, and I'm not able to support them because my financial well runs dry before I get to the farmers market.

Not to argue with you on this, I have no clue to legality but I never seen this issue raised before. Every market I have been at from Chicago to Seattle to New Hampshire the topic that is always being discussed while setting up is pricing. Just to help me understand....If I were to yell across the parking lot to my friend "Hey Pat, what are you getting on lettuce?" he yells back "a buck a head" I say "ok cool" whats wrong with that? Again not trying to have an argument, I just want to have that knowledge.

I did here something once about why lawyers make better fertilizer than farmers.

For a whole lot of reasons no one wants to read, I'm sure, there is almost nil chance any farmer would get in trouble over this. It wouldn't be worth the government's time to prosecute, and it surely wouldn't be worth a plaintiff lawyer's time as, unless some creative mind could get a class certified that included all buyers of tomatoes at farmers markets nationwide, for example, there would be no real measurable damages to recover.

I understand the reasons for this kind of behavior by farmers, but there is a detrimental effect on the consumer, though likely small on the individual scale.

All that being said, if the Department of Justice goes after farmers markets, give me a buzz. I'm in defense, ya know.

Ok Brad, I get that nobody would bother to prosecute this for obvious reasons, but I am still in the dark as to what makes this "wrong". How can having a discussion over the selling price be wrong?

EDIT ...I just did a google on this and I guess it could be viewed as price fixing. I have never thought of it that way though. A big part of the reason this goes on is to keep the market a hospitable place to work. You have to work side by side the same people all season and nobody wants to be viewed as an Ahole or be set up next to one. Well thanks Brad, I have new way of looking at it now.

Those damn farmers Johns. Conspiracies to set pricing on my Maters!

Ok Brad, I get that nobody would bother to prosecute this for obvious reasons, but I am still in the dark as to what makes this "wrong". How can having a discussion over the selling price be wrong?

What would happen if all the gas stations in Louisville decided to make their gas $10 a gallon? It would cripple the city. People don't have to buy tomatoes at farmers markets, so the price fixing isn't a huge deal, but collusion is never good for the consumer.

Ok Brad, I get that nobody would bother to prosecute this for obvious reasons, but I am still in the dark as to what makes this "wrong". How can having a discussion over the selling price be wrong?

What would happen if all the gas stations in Louisville decided to make their gas $10 a gallon? It would cripple the city. People don't have to buy tomatoes at farmers markets, so the price fixing isn't a huge deal, but collusion is never good for the consumer.

But there are laws that prevent gas stations at selling below cost. I dont think there is any protection for the farmer in that respect.

But there are laws that prevent gas stations at selling below cost. I dont think there is any protection for the farmer in that respect.

I'm not aware of this law and if it is a law it is openly broken all the time.

But there are laws that prevent gas stations at selling below cost. I dont think there is any protection for the farmer in that respect.

I'm not aware of this law and if it is a law it is openly broken all the time.

I just found this from WSJ "for kids" edition

http://wsjclassroom.com/archive/01oct/ENTR_walmart.htm

While the markup laws don't stop Wal-Mart from building gas stations, they do cancel out the marketing advantage it counted on by preventing it from offering customers a cheaper price. Twelve states have laws that specifically ban below-cost gas sales or require a minimum markup. Another 23 states have general "fair marketing" laws that ban below-cost sales of merchandise or "predatory pricing." The laws grew out of Depression-era efforts to protect consumers and small businesses from monopolies that slashed prices just long enough to drive competitors out of business, then raised them to fatten profits.

But there are laws that prevent gas stations at selling below cost. I dont think there is any protection for the farmer in that respect.

I'm not aware of this law and if it is a law it is openly broken all the time.

I just found this from WSJ "for kids" edition

http://wsjclassroom.com/archive/01oct/ENTR_walmart.htm

While the markup laws don't stop Wal-Mart from building gas stations, they do cancel out the marketing advantage it counted on by preventing it from offering customers a cheaper price. Twelve states have laws that specifically ban below-cost gas sales or require a minimum markup. Another 23 states have general "fair marketing" laws that ban below-cost sales of merchandise or "predatory pricing." The laws grew out of Depression-era efforts to protect consumers and small businesses from monopolies that slashed prices just long enough to drive competitors out of business, then raised them to fatten profits.

That was from 2001, so I don't know if it is still law or what. I also don't know if KY or IN is included. If it is a law it is not followed or enforced. Plus, Walmart is buying gas for a lot less than any Mom and Pop ever dreamed of.

Ok, lets continue the gas discussion offline. While I know I am one of the worst at derailing threads, I would like to see this one stay somewhat on topic.

Ok, lets continue the gas discussion offline. While I know I am one of the worst at derailing threads, I would like to see this one stay somewhat on topic.

10-4, see you a 4:00.

Ok Brad, I get that nobody would bother to prosecute this for obvious reasons, but I am still in the dark as to what makes this "wrong". How can having a discussion over the selling price be wrong?

EDIT ...I just did a google on this and I guess it could be viewed as price fixing. I have never thought of it that way though. A big part of the reason this goes on is to keep the market a hospitable place to work. You have to work side by side the same people all season and nobody wants to be viewed as an Ahole or be set up next to one. Well thanks Brad, I have new way of looking at it now.

Yes, price fixing is what I meant. I agree about not futher de-railing thread, but for more research take a look at the Sherman Act, primarly section 1: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/us ... -000-.html

Price fixing is a per se violation of the Sherman Act, meaning that a court doesn't consider the purposes for it. Any price fixing is illegal, and competitors discussing their pricing is probably the most common behavior that leads to violations. Most states, including Kentucky, have statutes that mirror the Sherman Act almost verbatim.