organic food study

Who is John Galt?

My thread has been sullied by Ayn Rand! Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to virtually wash an item, such as a discussion thread. Even if I did, I'm afraid no amount of soap/disinfectant could restore this thread to its pre-Rand quality.

Who is John Galt?

My thread has been sullied by Ayn Rand! Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to virtually wash an item, such as a discussion thread. Even if I did, I'm afraid no amount of soap/disinfectant could restore this thread to its pre-Rand quality.

For me, the difference is less nutritive, or pestacidical (new word? hehe!) but flavor.

I enjoy setting my non-foodie friends up by beginning to chat about the 'lengths' I went through to get the tomatoes or something for a seemingly banal bowl of spaghetti. You know the routine... then they always respond with the 'you take it too far' argument. Then I feed them. Then their eyes get as big as saucers and they tell me that was the best (x) of (y) they ever had. I'd be willing to bet that we all play some variation of this game, trying to convert our white zinfandel-loving, McDonald's habitual dining friends. I always chuckle to myself, because:

a) This bowl of spaghetti was cooked on the farm, nothing special is needed for great results
b) They just became a foodie- we'll have more to talk about (cause I don't shut up!)
c) They will happily pay and wash dishes the next time I cook!

It's so sad and so true!

One other thought... does anybody else mistrust the organic/free-range/yadidada products in grocery stores? Even Whole Foods. I keep thinking about the size the operations would have to be to supply that many stores. Hardly the 'This Good Earth' image inspiring consumers to pay the extra money for these products.

(but that's just me)

One other thought... does anybody else mistrust the organic/free-range/yadidada products in grocery stores? Even Whole Foods. I keep thinking about the size the operations would have to be to supply that many stores. Hardly the 'This Good Earth' image inspiring consumers to pay the extra money for these products.(but that's just me)

Yeah,for sure. I think thats one area where Shawn and I were in agreement on. Especially WF. On your point about the size of an operation not being able to conduct itself in a manner that would be consistent with a "good earth" image,I think that size should be no excuse. Some of the larger outfits have the capitol to put back into their operations to make them more efficient and easier on the environment,but still choose not to. I think this change will have to be market driven and not force fed regulations.

The organic food that is bought from whole foods, fresh market or your local supermarket has more than likely come from a large factory farm just as the chicken, beef, or free-range eggs have. Organic beef is beef from a feedlot just the same as regular they still stand around in their own feces waiting to be slaughtered. The worst has to be the way Chickens are treated, they will actually go so crazy in the cages that they will rub the feathers off their chests until they bleed; but jthompson I buy free-range chicken and eggs. Well that is great but unfortunately your large factory farms have managed to lobby so the term free range is about as useful as tits on a boar. They have a small opening that leads into a tiny fenced in area where a few hundred chickens can roam around; a few hundred in a factory of several thousand. Buy local, pay the extra money for the peace of mind to know where your food is coming from and stop giving your hard earned cash to some a-hole in California talkin about happy is Damn cows are. That is the black and white answer; life doesn't work like that. The answer for most of us lies somewhere in the middle. We all have to educate ourselves and make the compromises where we need to. I buy all my vegetables local and most of my meats but I'm not feeding a family of 5. It is me and my girl and we both are chefs who prefer the taste of grass fed to corn fed. We pay a little extra but have learned to eat smaller portions (sometimes). Just one last nugget for the masses, that chicken mcnugget you just fed your child is more corn than chicken; also there are 38 ingredients in a chicken mcnugget including tertiary butylhydroquinone or TBHQ which is an antioxidant derived from petroleum, it is a form of butane; a single gram of which can kill. The FDA allows a small amount of this in our food to protect freshness. This is one of the facts that blew me away when I read "Omnivores Dilemma". It is crazy what is allowed to be put in our food by organizations that are supposedly in place to keep us healthy.

I apoligize they are not here to keep us healthy but they are here to keep us safe; supposedly.

Hi John, i'm enjoying playing the devil to your advocate here, hopefully we'll inform a few people with our discussion

"I could bring over some stuff ,Orthene,Thoidan,Chlorpyrifos,Abamectin and spray some of that on a slice and then I could spray a slice with vinegar and a tea made with mum flowers. Which slice would you rather eat?"

I'm not sure if you're implying that organic farms use vinegar and/or teas made with mum flowers as pesticides (i'm assuming the others are classic synthetic pesticides) - but i'd rather have a slice not sprayed with either.
And if i'm not mistaken, botanical pesticides aren't quite as simple as a tea made with mums (on the small scale yes, but for the most part we're talking about things like - Nicotine Sulfate, Sulfur, Pyrethrum, Lime Sulfur, etc.... all of which are safe for use on organic farms, but each botanical does have pros and cons associated with their use - for instance sabadilla is an eye and airway irritant; pyrethrin, is extracted from a chrysanthemum plant, grown primarily in Kenya, Rwanda, Tanzania and Ecuador - so if all of our pyrethrin comes from these areas, what environmental impact does the agriculture of these flowers at this scale have on those areas; Rotenone is moderately toxic to most mammals, but is extremely toxic to fish.

The point i'm making is that simply because something is a botanical/mineral based pesticide doesn't make it a "safe" chemical.

Our perceptions regarding hydroponics/culture are different, but your explanation helps me to understand why you view it as being "organic".

I view hydroponics and hydro culture a little differently - culture: utilizing a water feed system in a more natural setting with natural light and natural root system (the mayans, rice farms, etc) - ponic - using artificial lighting and an "inert" medium for root growth. (we'll use ponic/ponos more literally to mean "the labor of man" instead of simply "labor or work")

I'm not saying that either of us is correct in our perceptions, but we have to acknowledge that there are differences in these perceptions and i would wager that most of our peers would not relate the term hydroponics to Mayan agriculture. Despite the best intentions of Gericke when he used the term in his "complete guide to SOILLESS gardening" .


Alcoholic beverages are not required to list the ingredients, i just find it amusing that you can label something as organic, but not list the ingredients.

A working definition of organics, hmmmm, lets start here

-A product that does not require any artificial stimulus to maintain its existence.

we'll start breaking down artificial stimuli next..

I just believe that most of the population is pretty clueless about the food they eat, and i like to play the devil's advocate.

For instance, - do any vegans out there wear cotton? do you care about the billions of tiny insects destroyed every year to make your clothes? Or are you concerned about the bees that pollinate your fruits and veggies, i think they are totally overworked and under appreciated, but yet the vegetarianism continues, oh the injustice to those with more than four legs.

shawn
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Cool...I like your style Vest...we must get together and drink beer.

Hey John
I dropped off some pears at DCE for you
i would say that these pears are 100% organic (although not USDA certified)

the trees have been at our house since we moved in six years ago and have never been fertilized or treated with pesticides of any kind

the only interaction i have with the trees is trimming the branches and picking the fruit

enjoy