My problem with the Highlands & Bardstown Road

i second that thought TP

Planned developments are the "chains" of the real estate world!

Norton Commons, maybe?

One thing good about Louisville is that you can still drive a car, park it on Frankfort, Bardstown, donwtown or wherever and have access to great eating spots. Many other cities may seemingly offer more but try accessing the areas from afar. It is great to be staying in a hotel near Georgetown in DC and walk down the street. But for those who can't afford to live there it is not easy or cheap to get there in the early evening to enjoy the place. In St. Louis, my hometown, people are afraid to bring their families downtown, especially at night. The beggers are on every corner in the West End and try walking a few blocks off the U City Loop at night on the other side of Skinker and see how run down it is. It is about a big picture in my books. Louisville is cool because we can actually be downtown, East end, Iroquois (Vienamese), and central--St Matthews--Highlands, Frankfort Ave--quickly and easily. Throw in easy access to the zoo (for us parents with small kids), the Science Center, parks, etc. and you got a well balanced, easily managed city that you can enjoy without massive commutes, high parking fees, etc.

I think once Phil gets used to the city he will embrace it. I have lived in Santa Fe, San Diego, LA, London, and NYC. There are great things about all of these cities but here I am back in my home town. It is a lovely, livable city, where you can get around very easily. And like others have pointed out, it is cheap. Relax and let it flow over you before you judge too harshly.

I will admit to being a bit sensitive about a newcomer's comments on our zoning here in da'ville. I assure you that our Metro Planning and Design Staff are well trained, well versed in all the various zoning schemas, committed to their work and quite progressive in all things relating to planning and zoning. The volunteer citizen planners who serve on the Planning Commission, Board of Zoning Adjustment, DRC, LD&T, Landmarks Commissions and ARCs are dedicated, hardworking people who give of their time and expertise to make this community more livable for everyone.

Bardstown Road is well zoned for what it is - an urban community that grew up organically. Currently zoning will keep it that way by requiring/encouraging new development to pull up to the sidewalk, be in a pedestrian friendly scale and plant appropriate green spaces.

If anyone would like a copy of Metro's zoning code, it can be purchased on CD for $10 at 444 S. Fifth Street at the Development office. Yes, I've read it.

Phil, we're always looking for interested volunteers on the various Commissions and Boards. Perhaps you'd consider attending our local Planning College - every other Saturday for 3 hours, for three months to learn about LouMetro's Planning and Zoning.

Leah Stewart
Vice Chair, Board of Zoning Adjustment

The thing about Louisville is that there are not enough people to support everything. The same 30,000 to 50,000 people support almost the same things. The rest are very poor, family oriented, church oriented, and I think that is why we have plateaued. We need for UPS to bring more companies to town. Our central location is everything now. The arena will be huge. Plus getting the young professionals in who won't be going to the KEC for tractor pulls, flea markets, wrestling matches, etc.
Our town has a split personality and when we finally open up a downtown arena, then the split is complete.
I grew up in the Highlands. Since childhood, the arts, sports, dining out, travel, politics, UL, education, libraries, etc. have been part of my life. That is the difference. Not that there aren't folks who have those interests in other parts of the city, but the Highlands is a state of mind and way of life that people of all ages and incomes embrace. (I don't know if or when he should go to the State Fair until he has lived here a few years )

What happens when the "fighting the establishment" generation becomes the establishment?

They pass silly zoning laws.

Im the exact opposite of Phil. I would prefer LESS, not more zoning laws. We have too many residential-only neighborhoods, I would prefer much more mixed use. The easiest way to get that is to have very few restrictions on what can be done with property. For example, I would love to have a pub ON my street. But, Im sure many of my neighbors disagree.

While The Highlands isnt somewhere I would move to (nothing wrong with it, just not my style), it comes close to what I like, although the residential and businesses are separated, the Bardstown corridor has naturally evolved to have a style of its own. Bars, restaurants, skate shops, lube shops, etc, etc all intermixed. Plus the Bambi Walk.

To echo what others have said - Bardstown Road is Louisville style. It isnt trying to be anything else, it just is what it is. It has evolved to what it is over the last 100 years and will be different 100 years from now. The people will support what they like and avoid what they dont and the neighborhood will be what the people want it to be, without any need for busybody zoners and neighborhood sign and thought police interference.

I also should add that when my New York friends (the dudes I grew up with) heard I was moving to Louisville, Kentucky their comment was, and I quote, "Gissen, you can't move there, they're going to lynch you in Kentucky." Thus, they had an inkling I would be difficult. I am a rather provocative person no matter where I am. I'm the kind of person who stirs up the pot, so to speak. You either hate me or love me. There is no in between. Sorry.

I know I get some flak when I say this, Phil, but Louisville "inside the Watterson," particularly the People's Republics of Crescent Hill/Clifton, the Highlands, Germantown, Old Louisville and maybe St. Matthews aren't really in Kentucky.

Well, okay, legally they are. But culturally? I don't _think_ so ...

I dont know about you, but I voted to keep us separated legally too. Im still not sure the point of me living in two different cities at the same time.

One issue, we both have, is why didn't the zoning laws dictate a bit more control over Bardstown Road? It would be great if all the stores, restaurants, bars etc were all together instead of spread out all over the place. Also, there should be some restriction on fast food joints and car repair joints. I wish Bardstown Road would be more like Nob Hill in Portland, Oregon, Mt. Adams in Cincinnati, Gas Town in San Diego, The West Village in NYC, Newberry Street in Boston, Adams Morgan in D.C., The Cow Hollow in San Francisco, Ocean Boulevard and Lincoln Road in Miami Beach, etc. I'm sure you get my drift. I know you risk becoming somewhat generic, but I do believe it would become more pedestrian friendly and charming. Maybe I'm showing my age. Perhaps I should start this as a new post and stir up some emotion. I think I will. Phil

When I read this thread yesterday, I figured I must just be so tired I couldn't really get what the point was. I'm less tired now, and I'm still not sure what the point is. But what I come away with is generally something like, "I don't like this because it's not that," which is the trap too many people fall into when they go to new places and those places aren't like *their* places, or they aren't like other places they've been.

For me, that doesn't sound so much like a 60's attitude so much as an inability or an unwillingness to suspend one's sense of comfort and understanding whilst engaging in something new, which sorta smacks of inflexibility, I guess, not a free-spirited leap into the unknown.

It also sort of smacks of the ugly American mentality that prides itself on exploring new places but gets a little pissy when it's not enough like home (or someplace familiar). And also, I was reminded of Disney World's World Showcase, where you get to walk down little streets that are all "zoned" apparently to illustrate discrete countries in such a way that every little bit of a place is all of a piece. *This* is Norway. *This* is Spain. Etc. Which I think most of us get right away is nonsense. But to go there and complain that any one of them isn't something else would be sort of beside the point. Because clearly you are where you are and not somewhere else.

Every time we've moved, I've worked to resist doing that and have had to drag Gary kicking and screaming right along with me. Because like you, Phil, wherever we go, Gary lapses into the complaints, the "this isn't that," which for Gary is difficult to get beyond. Eventually he *does* get beyond it, and ironically so much so that the thing that was originally the "this" and which he found alienating becomes the new standard against which to measure all the *new* this's, an attitude he's now come to recognize with some humor, thankfully, because I've been in the lucky position of being able to point out the bleeding obvious to him again and again.

When we first came to this area, Bardstown was of course one of the first neighborhoods we explored because it held so many of the restaurants we wanted to try out. Gary spent the first many months complaining that it wasn't more like Lincoln Park in Chicago, an area he *used* to complain was too congested and not fun any more. But before Lincoln Park was Lincoln Park, it wasn't anything but scary. And I know that because I lived there.

On the other hand, Bardstown is in more ways than it isn't very much like Lincoln Park, only smaller. But then so's Louisville. To expect Bardstown to be like anything in Chicago probably isn't very reasonable.

Thankfully, Gary's getting better at catching himself at those comparisons whilst right smack dab in the middle of them. It makes him a whole lot easier to be with when we go to new places, because frankly it's no fun hanging around with him for long while he's in the heat of his "this isn't that" complainer schtick.

Welcome to Louisville, Phil.

Re: Marsha - I wish Bardstown Road were 2 lanes and still had the street cars!

Ive suggested eliminating parking on Bardstown Rd.

Neither residents of the Highlands nor business owners like my idea for some reason. As someone who gets frustrated every time I try to drive to somewhere along Bardstown and doesnt mind parking 3 or 5 or 7 blocks away back in the neighborhood, I like the idea though.

The thing about Louisville is that there are not enough people to support everything. The same 30,000 to 50,000 people support almost the same things. The rest are very poor, family oriented, church oriented, and I think that is why we have plateaued.)

I'm not sure I fully understand this statement. Is that to say that family and church oriented people are not part of the group that supports everything? If so I would strongly disagree! I am a family man and a minister, but love our independent restaurant scene, support the arts in this community, love the Highlands even though I don't live there, etc. I guess I read your statement as indicating that family and church oriented people don't support our city which I think is false. Am I out bar hopping on Bardstown Rd? no, but that doesn't mean I love this city and what makes it unique any less. If that's not what you meant, please feel free to correct me.
Kris

Ditto Kris, above, by the way....

I'm reminded too of the many times I've said to Gary on our way to somewhere that I can't wait til we can enjoy a glass of wine or a beer or whatever so that Gary can start to chill out and relax and just enjoy the day/evening/experience/place, whatever....

After experiencing the complaints about the food and the bread nearly wherever we go, I think I have finally threatened Gary enough so that he's stopped doing that. I really don't want to sit through a meal somewhere and have to listen to him say it's not as good as... whatever (usually what he gets at home). The last time he did that in a restaurant, I threatened to walk out. He was complaining about the bread and had just started quizzing the wait staff about it. And I might, ya know, even have a vested interest in the bread, but when I'm eating at a restaurant, I really don't want to have to have a critical debate about the relative merits of the bread on the table. I just want to enjoy myself.

I'm thinking that folks wouldn't feel the need to "lynch" you, Phil, because your notions are in any way radical, or because the apparent lynch mob is just that inflexible/conservative/uptight or what have you, but that instead the sensibility would just be impatience with hanging around with folks who can't enjoy the moment or enjoy the experience or appreciate a place for what it is. Chronic complaining is tedious. It's kind of a buzz kill.

And because this conversation was started in the spirit of "getting the emotions going," I'm hoping you're okay with so many of us speaking frankly, even though I'm not so sure it's so much "emotion" happening as observations about basic approaches to... stuff.

I empathise. I really do. Yes, Louisville is not walkable, even in the intown neighborhoods. I always think it's sort of touching how people in Crescent Hill or the Highlands look down at people outside of the Watterson...when by the standards of many cities, their areas would be quite suburban.

That being said...Louisville is wonderful for what it is. I've lived in Forest Hills Gardens (the Norton Commons of its time and place) in New York, the D.F. in Mexico, and Oxford in England. I've also travelled, and I've been to several places for a couple of months. Each and every place has its own charms, and its own drawbacks. Sure, there are drawbacks to this city - as with any city - but on the whole I love it. Maybe Louisville isn't as cosmopolitan as the D.F., but men don't yell lewd comments at me or try to grab my butt either. Maybe it isn't as walkable as Queens, but I can drive downtown from my house in ten minutes; not 45 minutes on the subway or the LIRR.

Again, I empathise, but I think you'd feel better if you didn't worry so much about what Louisville ISN'T and focus on what it IS: a small city with great restaurants, a lively arts community, gorgeous parks, and friendly people.

Yes, Louisville is not walkable, even in the intown neighborhoods.


Wow, people on this forum must be really out of shape! I can walk from the Douglas Loop to midway down Baxter Ave in about 40 minutes. That means you can get anywhere in much less time. Frankfort Ave from Northend Cafe to beyond the library where basically everything ends can be done in much less time than that. That means starting at midpoint on Bardstown you can be anywhere in 20 minutes and the same on Frankfort. Downtown is even easier to walk. How long does it take to walk along Cresent St in Montreal? or from the strip to the back of even one casino in Las Vegas? Give me a break! Maybe some people need to start doing some walking for their own benefit.

[Robin Garr]

[I am a family man and a minister,

We forgot to have kids, but Mary and I are very active in one of the most liberal Episcopal churches in town and are quite happy about that. We also live in the trendy Crescent Hill zone and love it, support the arts and culture, eat out a lot (and not just at chains on Sundays) and tip well. We know how to tell dirty jokes and don't do a lot of evangelizing (it's not an Anglican thing), so I guess I'm going along with Kris in saying that stereotypes about "church people" don't work very well.

That said, I think I know the image that Phil is speaking of, and it is pretty well known in the restaurant industry ... but not much represented, I think, on a forum dedicated to the discussion of fine dining and good things to eat and drink.