"A restaurant without any decent beer choices ... "

Craft beer "movement". Kind of like a bowel movement only with pretension.

Nice. This serves as an indication of how useful it will be to engage you in the future. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to do a similar movement tango atop the nearest receptacle of Bud Light. It's right across the hall.

Craft beer "movement". Kind of like a bowel movement only with pretension.

Nice. This serves as an indication of how useful it will be to engage you in the future. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to do a similar movement tango atop the nearest receptacle of Bud Light. It's right across the hall.

Actually Roger, I find the analogy to be somewhat effective in describing your annoying "Beer Snob" persona...i.e. Your pretentious death-to-chains-you're-not-sh**-if you-don't-drink-craft-beer diatribes have become as predictable as any bowel movement. I DO think the analogy could have been improved on had he somehow worked in something about death-to-chains-except-those-who-sell-my-beer but that's just my take. See, it's like this Roger...Some people just don't WANT to drink "craft beer"...and all of the "education" in the world is not going to change their minds. They just don't LIKE it...and all of your pontificating is not going to change their minds....and get this Roger, that doesn't make them any less intelligent than you are and (thankfully) it doesn't make their business any less important to the majority of restaurants/taverns/bars, etc. Furthermore, there are those people (and I'll include myself in this category), who after years of listening to all of this pompous-frothing-at-the-mouth crap, start to push back...In my case I drink lots of craft beer...and (tip of the hat) I also drink a fair amount of good ol' Union Made American Beer...I just won't drink YOUR beer. Not because it's not good beer...Hell I think Pierce does a great job...I just won't drink your beer because DELETED BY FORUM HOST.

I also drink a fair amount of good ol' Union Made American Beer

Yuengling?

Actually Roger, I find the analogy to be somewhat effective in describing your annoying "Beer Snob" persona

Gary was replying to Doug, not Roger, so the analogy doesnt apply as you describe at all.

I also drink a fair amount of good ol' Union Made American Beer

Yuengling?

Nope

I also drink a fair amount of good ol' Union Made American Beer

Yuengling?

Nope

Im running out of beers that meet both the "good ol'" and "American" qualifiers (I have no clue who is union/non-union). I forget Pabst because I always forget about the contract brews, so maybe that is who you meant.

In case you dont realize the point Im making, Bud is Belgian, Miller is British and Coors is Canadian. They are as American as a Toyota made in Georgetown. Which, depending on your POV....

Edit: Its Genesee isnt it? Thats what you are drinking!

In case you dont realize the point Im making, Bud is Belgian, Miller is British and Coors is Canadian. They are as American as a Toyota made in Georgetown. Which, depending on your POV....

Edit: Its Genesee isnt it? Thats what you are drinking!

Would it help matters if I clarified my previous reply by substituting the words "Union Made American Style Lager" ???

In case you dont realize the point Im making, Bud is Belgian, Miller is British and Coors is Canadian. They are as American as a Toyota made in Georgetown. Which, depending on your POV....

Edit: Its Genesee isnt it? Thats what you are drinking!

Would it help matters if I clarified my previous reply by substituting the words "Union Made American Style Lager" ???

Yes it would, but you didnt say that, so I assumed you meant what you wrote.

Although Yuengling and Pabst would still qualify.

In case you dont realize the point Im making, Bud is Belgian, Miller is British and Coors is Canadian. They are as American as a Toyota made in Georgetown. Which, depending on your POV....

Edit: Its Genesee isnt it? Thats what you are drinking!

Would it help matters if I clarified my previous reply by substituting the words "Union Made American Style Lager" ???

Apparently even if the ingredients are grown in America, the beer is brewed in America by unionized Americans according to an American recipe and distributed by American workers to American consumers, it still isn't American beer if the profits go to people in Belgium.

Actually Roger, I find the analogy to be somewhat effective in describing your annoying "Beer Snob" persona

Gary was replying to Doug, not Roger, so the analogy doesnt apply as you describe at all.

Oh it still applies. I was replying more to the attitude than any single person. The term 'craft beer movement' makes it sound like there is important work being done by those 'in the know' about beer. I'm asserting that this movement is turning more people off of craft beer than drawing them to it. At least on this website.

Maybe I'll get a 4000 word essay explaining why I'm a closed minded idiot.

I'm asserting that this movement is turning more people off of craft beer than drawing them to it.

Double digit growth in a shrinking industry suggests otherwise.

In case you dont realize the point Im making, Bud is Belgian, Miller is British and Coors is Canadian. They are as American as a Toyota made in Georgetown. Which, depending on your POV....

Edit: Its Genesee isnt it? Thats what you are drinking!

Would it help matters if I clarified my previous reply by substituting the words "Union Made American Style Lager" ???

Apparently even if the ingredients are grown in America, the beer is brewed in America by unionized Americans according to an American recipe and distributed by American workers to American consumers, it still isn't American beer if the profits go to people in Belgium.

As I said, same for Toyota (okay, the design may not be American in that case, but "American recipe" is questionable too. At least Bud likes to claim their czech roots, even if its mostly myth.)

Edit: Look at it another way -- is McDonalds local? What if the franchise is locally owned so the profits stay here? I would still so no. But Papa Johns is local. But if they sold out to McDonalds, they wouldnt be any more.

Apparently even if the ingredients are grown in America, the beer is brewed in America by unionized Americans according to an American recipe and distributed by American workers to American consumers, it still isn't American beer if the profits go to people in Belgium.

As I said, same for Toyota (okay, the design may not be American in that case, but "American recipe" is questionable too. At least Bud likes to claim their czech roots, even if its mostly myth.)

Edit: Look at it another way -- is McDonalds local? What if the franchise is locally owned so the profits stay here? I would still so no. But Papa Johns is local. But if they sold out to McDonalds, they wouldnt be any more.

If Toyota bought Ford tomorrow, would Ford cease to be an American company? Would the Ford sitting in my neighbor's driveway become a foreign car? What about the Escape that rolls off the Louisville assembly line 10 years from now? Foreign or domestic?

Maybe the distinction is largely a meaningless one in a globalized economy. But I tend to think that companies that retain a substantially American character can meaningfully be called American even if their ownership goes overseas.

Apparently even if the ingredients are grown in America, the beer is brewed in America by unionized Americans according to an American recipe and distributed by American workers to American consumers, it still isn't American beer if the profits go to people in Belgium.

As I said, same for Toyota (okay, the design may not be American in that case, but "American recipe" is questionable too. At least Bud likes to claim their czech roots, even if its mostly myth.)

Edit: Look at it another way -- is McDonalds local? What if the franchise is locally owned so the profits stay here? I would still so no. But Papa Johns is local. But if they sold out to McDonalds, they wouldnt be any more.

If Toyota bought Ford tomorrow, would Ford cease to be an American company? Would the Ford sitting in my neighbor's driveway become a foreign car? What about the Escape that rolls off the Louisville assembly line 10 years from now? Foreign or domestic?

Yes. No. Foreign.

Maybe the distinction is largely a meaningless one in a globalized economy.

Agreed. I think the bigger difference is between small, "craft" type (whether talking beer or restaurants or cars) and corporate type (whether beer, chain restaurants, or cars).

But I tend to think that companies that retain a substantially American character can meaningfully be called American even if their ownership goes overseas.

And what does that mean when it comes to beer, exactly? I would say that craft beer more embodies the American spirit and character than anything put out by the global corporations. Except then you get Goose Island, so YMMV. Does a cheap, american knockoff of a Czech pilsner really retain substantial American character? Maybe it does, but I would hope not.

In my mind, when your product better represents Madison Ave than it does wherever its from (St Louis, Milwaukee, Golden) then its lost its true American character. Being sold to foreign ownership is just the final nail.

The term 'craft beer movement' makes it sound like there is important work being done by those 'in the know' about beer. I'm asserting that this movement is turning more people off of craft beer than drawing them to it. At least on this website

No essay here Gary just a link to a website. http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/craft-brewing-statistics/beer-sales
I'm sure you'll find some rational to disregard the numbers here in any case. In spite of your assertions, its is apparent that more people are drinking craft beer than ever. These are possibly your customers. I wonder at your rancor towards craft beer. Or is it just aimed at craft beer lovers who are not loath to proclaim their preference?

What's the beer list like at the restaurant you work at Gary? Do you serve Big Macs there? I've believe millions if not billions of those are sold every year to people who like them. Or at least people who want to pay a minimal price for their food. Sure a Big Mac gets the job done as does a 50 cent can of Budweiser.

If that's the extent of your aim - fill a hole or get drunk at the cheapest price possible then Big Macs and Budweiser make sense. Carry on.

Just don't expect people who participate on a foodie forum (this website) to respect that attitude.