A Facebook Servers Rant....Justified?

Since we're on tipping, here's an etiquette question.

Everybody knows that when you have a discount, coupon, etc, you should tip based on the full, pre-discount amount of the bill.

What do you do when part of your bill (e.g., one entree) is comped or discounted because a dish wasn't prepared right or some other issue that was the restaurant's fault? Do you tip on what your bill would have been without the comp?

What about if you have a really poor experience and management comps the whole meal? Do you still give the server something? And how do you do that if you don't have cash on hand?

[Robin Garr]

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What about if you have a really poor experience and management comps the whole meal? Do you still give the server something? And how do you do that if you don't have cash on hand?

I always tip on what the full amount would have been regardless of any reductions for whatever reason. That seems to me to be only fair to the server, who gains no benefit from my reduced price. He is still serving me the same meal and doing the same amount of work.

Not having cash could be quirky. I think I'd ask if they could run a credit slip for the amount that I wish to tip the server.

I always tip on what the full amount.

And what do most people consider the "full amount" I usually start at a 20% base but this is on the subtotal or before tax amount. I don't feel the need to pay a gratuity on the taxes. With sales tax usually in the 5% to 8% range depending on your travels, this of course amounts to a 5%-8% swing when comparing subtotals to the grand total. Just wondering how other people look at this.

[Robin Garr]

And what do most people consider the "full amount" I usually start at a 20% base but this is on the subtotal or before tax amount. I don't feel the need to pay a gratuity on the taxes. With sales tax usually in the 5% to 8% range depending on your travels, this of course amounts to a 5%-8% swing when comparing subtotals to the grand total. Just wondering how other people look at this.

Jeff, I'm not judging other people and don't preach that everyone "has to" do this. But answering your question for me, I try to go out of my way to support the working people who serve my dinner. To that end, rather than get out my calculator to figure a precise amount, I'll generally just take the total, figure 20 percent, round up, sign it and go.

Now, that said, I don't think the person who serves me a $200 dinner works 10 times as hard as the person who serves me a $20 dinner, so I'm generally more likely to calculate the tip fairly precisely on an expensive meal, while I don't even think about percentage and might tip $4 or $5 on a $10 meal if I'm happy. At low-end eateries, servers generally bust their butts yet get a percentage of only a smallish check, so it makes a difference.

But the bottom line is that I just try to be generous to hard working people and don't spend much of my time doing precision math on it.

Others' mileage may vary, and that's okay.

I don't undsterstand why everyone makes such a big deal about the difference between tipping 15-20%. For me personally, It's just easier to figure out that it's $2 for every $10 of the bill pre-discount, and just just round up or down a little than it is to figure out a buck and a half per $10 spent. I don't need a tip card to figure out the exact tip amount on a $43 tab, to me I just add nine bucks to the tip line. It's easier to figure $20 on a $100 check. That's only a five dollar difference between 15 and 20%. Trust me, that's a bigger deal to that person waiting on you than it is to you if you can afford to spend a hundred bucks eating out. I don't get why it's so hard to err on the side of tipping more? Why do some people feel you have to break out an abacus to figure it out to the penny? It's not "new math"

Something else to consider for those not in food service, I've noticed from my personal experience as an ex-server and that seen happen a lot of the time, but not exclusive to, chain places (and what I suspect Robin may be talking about), is a phenomenon known to servers as "getting $5 to death". For some reason, a lot of folks out there think that $5 is the maximum threshold of what they are going to tip, no matter how much the tab is. $5 is 20% of a $25 bill, but it happens with regular frequency that people will only leave five bucks on tabs of $50 or more.

For example, say your a server at Longhorn Steakhouse (a place I happen to like and eat at with frequency) where the check average per person I would think by looking at the menu to be around 18-20 bucks. On an average night, you get a five table section of deuces with one four top you may turn over at least once with a couple deuces getting three turns if your lucky. By figuring that you are going to wait on an estimated 30 customers during your shift and using the check average of 20 bucks per head, you figure you'll do $600 in sales, 20% of which is $120. Not bad right!? That server figures they can make rent and and toss back a few after work. But the reality more often than not is the average tip can be anywhere from 10-15% whith a few 20% worked in. So instead of bringing home that 100 bucks after tip-outs to the bussers, bartenders and food runners. You get stuck with not even half what you thought you'd make if 4 of your tables only left you $5.

I know I've posted this before, put I just want to put a plug in for Mike Rose's book, The Mind at Work. The first chapter, "The Working Life of a Waitress," is particularly appropriate for this conversation. The whole book looks at how we undervalue the cognitive processing necessary for service work. In the chapter I mentioned, he comes to better understand the challenges of being a waiter by talking with his mother, who was a lifelong waitress. Just a fascinating read and one that registered with me from my time as a waiter.

For example, say your a server at Longhorn Steakhouse (a place I happen to like and eat at with frequency) where the check average per person I would think by looking at the menu to be around 18-20 bucks. On an average night, you get a five table section of deuces with one four top you may turn over at least once with a couple deuces getting three turns if your lucky. By figuring that you are going to wait on an estimated 30 customers during your shift and using the check average of 20 bucks per head, you figure you'll do $600 in sales, 20% of which is $120. Not bad right!? That server figures they can make rent and and toss back a few after work. But the reality more often than not is the average tip can be anywhere from 10-15% whith a few 20% worked in. So instead of bringing home that 100 bucks after tip-outs to the bussers, bartenders and food runners. You get stuck with not even half what you thought you'd make if 4 of your tables only left you $5.

From my experience (circa 2005), these people are not only cheap, but they feel that they are actually doing society a favor by upholding what they see to be the proper social order. In their world, a server should not be making $120 dollars a night. That's what people make at "real" jobs. If a person wanted to make that much money, they should go to college and get a "real" job. By only leaving $5 they are working to restore the proper salary order to the social chain. They are okay with the server making, say, $10 an hour - or $80 bucks a day. But, $120 is just not acceptable.

Granted, many of these people simply don't like to admit that they think a server may make more than them. These people, though, aren't accounting for tip out, lack of health insurance, the inherent money swings that come with serving, etc.

I also wonder if people would keep it to themselves and not rant on Facebook if they went to work on any given day at their non service jobs and instead of making their expected hourly wage or salary, the person writing the checks didn't feel paying the normal amount and only paid you half instead, because they felt "you didn't really do enough to earn the full amount." Or say a supplier, through no fault of your own, was late on a delivery and the person paying you had to "wait longer than they expected for it and the other guy got there's before mine, even though I ordered mine first" they docked your pay. Sounds ludicrous right? Well that's what it's like for a tipped employee every day.

I know I've posted this before, put I just want to put a plug in for Mike Rose's book, The Mind at Work. The first chapter, "The Working Life of a Waitress," is particularly appropriate for this conversation. The whole book looks at how we undervalue the cognitive processing necessary for service work. In the chapter I mentioned, he comes to better understand the challenges of being a waiter by talking with his mother, who was a lifelong waitress. Just a fascinating read and one that registered with me from my time as a waiter.

Just added this book to my wish list.
Thanks!

With me, you're preaching to the choir on this one.

I don't undsterstand why everyone makes such a big deal about the difference between tipping 15-20%. For me personally, It's just easier to figure out that it's $2 for every $10 of the bill pre-discount, and just just round up or down a little than it is to figure out a buck and a half per $10 spent. I don't need a tip card to figure out the exact tip amount on a $43 tab, to me I just add nine bucks to the tip line. It's easier to figure $20 on a $100 check. That's only a five dollar difference between 15 and 20%. Trust me, that's a bigger deal to that person waiting on you than it is to you if you can afford to spend a hundred bucks eating out. I don't get why it's so hard to err on the side of tipping more? Why do some people feel you have to break out an abacus to figure it out to the penny? It's not "new math"

I heartily agree, and that's what I do almost all the time. I almost always tip in whole dollars, usually rounded up from 20%. The only exception is if I've received really poor service - I'll pull out my phone's calculator and figure out 15% to the penny.

I also wonder if people would keep it to themselves and not rant on Facebook if they went to work on any given day at their non service jobs and instead of making their expected hourly wage or salary, the person writing the checks didn't feel paying the normal amount and only paid you half instead, because they felt "you didn't really do enough to earn the full amount." Or say a supplier, through no fault of your own, was late on a delivery and the person paying you had to "wait longer than they expected for it and the other guy got there's before mine, even though I ordered mine first" they docked your pay. Sounds ludicrous right? Well that's what it's like for a tipped employee every day.

AMEN!

I already established my superiority as a human being like everybody else in the thread by declaring my philanthropic tipping structure, so I don't feel guilty saying that the comparison between tipping and fixed-wage/salaries is a poor one.

Remember that for the average salaried employee, it is rare that, after a particularly productive day, the bossman says "Great job, here's $200 extra for today's work."

It goes both ways. I'm not saying it isn't difficult to be a server. I have no idea, never having been one.

I certainly respect the profession. I agree that people should be generous when presented with good service, and am put off by bad tippers. I also think that everyone I encounter should be respectful, polite, and should yield when I'm attempting to turn left in heavy traffic.

But when it doesn't happen, I'm not going to be too surprised.

I usually start at 20%, and will tip 15% for lousy service, more for great service.

...There we go thinkin' alike again. We have so got to sit down and have a beer and solve the problems of the world someday. Two great minds, shouldn't take more than 5 or 6 beers

I've never had a problem that 6 beers didn't solve

Received this from a Facebook friend today. Discuss.

FUCK YOU! To people who don't know how to tip 18-20%. FUCK YOU! I bust my ass for you. I refill your h20s, iced teas, beers, etc. I remark your silverware. I keep your orders straight by seat # (but sometimes you get up and rearrange yourselves). This makes separating your checks easier. Plus, I come into the restaurant an hour and a half early to make sure the bathroom is stocked w/ TP and hand t...owels, and are clean and sanitary. Also, the house floors are swept and mopped everyday by me. Folks need to recognize that servers aren't making shit on the hour. Our minimum wage has never increased. Take your 15% tip somewhere else! And FUCK YOU for taking up valuable real estate in my section waiting for your "joiner."

Maybe our roid' raged waiter should just find another job? That's the really neat thing about our society, You can do whatever you want to do.....some simply choose to complain about whatever they possibly can and do nothing about it.....

Mr. Shepard, That is one of the main purposes of facebook, to rant, to express yourself, and hope someone understands and commiserates. I waited back in the days of Table-side cooking, flambe desserts, and Caesar salads to order, I would love to see the majority of the population handle all that with grace and a smile on their face. Don't be so quick to judge, and hey, have you heard,,, jobs are a wee bit difficult to get these days!! Walk in my shoes a day, and your back will be aching, and your feet will be stinking. Just saying. Peace on the wait staff. High IQ required for the best waiters that I've met, who are making ends meet the best the can while that great American novel is fermenting, or that photography portfolio is growing, or just cause our country can't subsidize artists, but can oil companies, they have a slightly difficult time.

I don't post much. I'm sure I will post less after this, so have at it. Tipping has always bothered me. I worked as a waitress many years as I went to college and grad school. I always tip 20% UNLESS service is bad, then I drop it down. Here is my issue. You took that job. You knew when you did that most of your income would be based on the good will of those you serve. I was a damn good waitress when I did it and the immediate gratification was sometimes intoxicating, the disappointment devastating.

Now, I am a social worker. Another job that doesn't pay well. I did a damn good job today. No one left me anything extra when I was done. I'm involved in changing the mentality of my profession, not just complaining about it. Oh, I DO complain about it, but I'm also working to be compensated for my education, dedication and hard work by MY EMPLOYER, not those I serve.

Ok, GO.