Primo wins CJ's four-star praise

I think it is interesting that no one has brought up the use of Blue Dog Bread in many of Louisville's top restarants. Most on this forum applaud the use of their bread, even in our finest restaurants. Why have a different standard for gelato? Both are being artisinally produced in a fashion which requires special equipment, research, and training. I see no issue with the use of either product. Many other restaurants, such as Limestone, use Graeters vanilla ice cream, and no one quibbles with that. They also recieved a 4 star rating from the CJ and Robin. In any event, Primo is on top of their game and they deserve the 4 stars.

I think it is interesting that no one has brought up the use of Blue Dog Bread in many of Louisville's top restarants. Most on this forum applaud the use of their bread, even in our finest restaurants. Why have a different standard for gelato? Both are being artisinally produced in a fashion which requires special equipment, research, and training. I see no issue with the use of either product. Many other restaurants, such as Limestone, use Graeters vanilla ice cream, and no one quibbles with that. They also recieved a 4 star rating from the CJ and Robin. In any event, Primo is on top of their game and they deserve the 4 stars.

I was specifically thinking of Blue Dog bread when I made this post:

an exception to this is anything that is offered gratis. I've got no problem with the fact that a restaurant may not bake its own bread in house when it is being offered to me for no charge.

and yes, I think there is a different standard for bread and desserts. Why? Because you don't order bread off the menu. It is simply given to you as part of the meal. If the restaurant puts an item of food on its menu and offers it for sale, it seems to be representing that it either made it or it was made specially for the restaurant. Again, I don't see any problem with either practice for a casual Italian restaurant like Primo. And I will again mention the fact that I personally adore the food and wine list at Primo. It is one of my favorite restaurants in the city.

[Robin Garr]

If the restaurant puts an item of food on its menu and offers it for sale, it seems to be representing that it either made it or it was made specially for the restaurant.

As a general principle, this is true. But I'm still sitting over here with my mouth hanging open at the idea that Primo's decision to go to Gelato Gilberto, an extremely high quality, small production, independent local purveyor, for <i>one</i> of its desserts should jeopardize its four-star status in any way, shape or form.

Gelato is an unusual item. It requires special equipment and training. You can't just crank it out of an ice-cream maker.

Now, if Primo were buying fettuccine alfredo in freezer packs from Sysco, that would be a whole 'nuther story. But that's just not happening, and it's not about to happen.

we once again find ourselves at an impasse over what it means or requires to be a 4 star restaurant.

If the restaurant puts an item of food on its menu and offers it for sale, it seems to be representing that it either made it or it was made specially for the restaurant.

As a general principle, this is true. But I'm still sitting over here with my mouth hanging open at the idea that Primo's decision to go to Gelato Gilberto, an extremely high quality, small production, independent local purveyor, for <i>one</i> of its desserts should jeopardize its four-star status in any way, shape or form.

I re-read this thread and don't see where anyone has made this assertion. In fact, I said that Primo deserved four stars.

That said, this is a restaurant that deserves 4 stars regardless of the color of the tablecloths because they are making creative, delicious, and challenging cuisine.

[Robin Garr]

I re-read this thread and don't see where anyone has made this assertion. In fact, I said that Primo deserved four stars.

You did indeed. No controversy there. I think we all agree that Primo deserves four stars.

Just for the record, though, the Gilberto Gelato sub-thread started when Dave C. said "My only nit pick would be that they should be making their own Gelato and Sorbet (as opposed to using purveyors) to earn those 4 stars."

I re-read this thread and don't see where anyone has made this assertion. In fact, I said that Primo deserved four stars.

You did indeed. No controversy there. I think we all agree that Primo deserves four stars.

Just for the record, though, the Gilberto Gelato sub-thread started when Dave C. said "My only nit pick would be that they should be making their own Gelato and Sorbet (as opposed to using purveyors) to earn those 4 stars."

Wish I could run back and take that one out but.....it did garner some heated debate and that is what the forum is about eh? I still stand by it though as I do think that 4 stars implies perfection on every level, though, clearly does not mean "made in house". As I said before, I think they earned every bit of the 4 stars in spite of the Gelato factor...(maybe I'm just bitter and pissed that I only got 3........that damn Walleye!)

don't take anything back David. Your post got a great discussion going.

From a financial standpoint:

I'm not sure if anyone is entirely aware of this, but outsourcing anything is usually incredibly costly.

For that matter, due to the nature of the ingredients used in 'typical' desserts, the amount of actual cost to produce them in house is ridiculously low when compared to other menu items.

You have potential to make the most return per dollar amount by making desserts in house, than even the much-lauded markup for booze in restaurants.



Case in point:
When i came on at Asiatique, a majority of the dessert menu items were outsourced (locally). When a piece of cake costs you $2.25 a slice at cost (wholesale), and you're selling it for $6... factor in other components on the plate, and waste etc... you're easily exceeding over 50% food cost.
Any one who works in the business knows at that high of a percentage, you're making hardly any money.

Now i know dessert sales won't make or break a business, but they can offset your bottomline, and lower the average on your foodcost more than you think. (and your waitstaff is dying to sell them, to boost their check average).


One month after the restaurant opened in the Highlands, i met my goal of having every single item/element of the dessert menu made 100% in house. I even beat my timetable for this goal by well over a month.

and the food cost?
Averaged 10-15%.

So for every dollar spent, you turn 85-90 cents.
on a dessert that you sell for now $6.50; you make a profit of $5.53 to $5.85.


hypothetically speaking, if you're paying your pastry chef a fair hourly rate, you balance out the labor cost with charging a premium for a higher quality product (and to slightly offset labor costs), and you're still making out with more money in the bank at the end of the month... all the while turning out unique, individualized products specifically meant for your operation.

And you have the sincere pleasure of saying: 'yes, everything is made in house'.



Furthermore, i think i've made it evident before, that i'm not classically trained in pastry arts. Truthfully, i picked it up out of necessity to maintain my own unique 'voice' in that restaurant.
In addition to the dessert production, i handled all the cold apps, a number of hot apps, swing cooked, prepared around 50% of August Moon's desserts, and ran the kitchen when Looi and Tuan were out of town on business.

Is that worth the money?

Crosstraining and empowering your staff to rise above and better themself benefits not only your young fledgling cooks, but benefits your business in it's own growth.

Who ever said a pastry chef doesn't have to 'get his/her hands dirty' and who dictates that his/her realm is solely in a world of sugar, chocolate and flour?

I know wholeheartedly that there isn't a huge niche market for pastry chefs in this town.
I'm lucky enough to have the training on the other side of the kitchen to bounce back and forth as needed, and this leaves me more career options than others in my line of work.


I truly don't think the majority of operators/chefs really weigh out the cost/loss advantages of making their own desserts in house (with the amount of care that they would with costs for their full menu), as opposed to outsourcing.

I'm not saying it'll necessarily be effective for every operation...
but it is an often cost effective option - that is sadly overlooked, and few bother considering and looking into fully; and as Dave said - an afterthought.

Having said that, my rant is mainly concerned with how pastries have become an afterthought in our business.

Afterthought indeed.

If it's my last dying breath as a pastry chef in this town, i'm not gonna stop until an afterthought becomes at your forefront, and is a deciding draw to the 'entire dining experience' and why diners chose to eat where they do.

First item on the agenda:
'definition of dessert? explorations into altering the dining publics perceptions and expectations on what exactly quantifies a dessert course.'





example:

flavors traditionally associated with a salad course, reinterpreted as chocolate cake. (essentially)


i'm dead serious.

debut.


ironically, the concepts of this dish would be right at home at Primo.








(did you guys really think this sub-thread wouldn't warrant an lengthy empassioned rant?)

You have validated many of my beliefs. I have paid Pastry Chefs at my own digs and they have earned every penny...indeed garnered my restaurant a good deal of praise and even Robin knows this.....LOL. A good pastry chef is worth the price you pay in labor and can make a reputation for your establishment. So, I guess I have run full circle here and I hope this thread dies as my name is getting thrown about way too much. Again, I do believe that Primo has earned the 4 stars regardless of the Gelato but I do think that having a well trained Pastry Chef, on site, can make a huge difference (it has for me in the past and will again) Hell, I burn my cheesecakes every time.....

A round of applause for a great discussion.

Dave you started us thinking. Ethan, as always, your passion and understanding of the business is spot on.

--end--

From a financial standpoint:

I'm not sure if anyone is entirely aware of this, but outsourcing anything is usually incredibly costly.

what if you get your desserts made in India.

[Robin Garr]

what if you get your desserts made in India.

I can see it now! Kheer and barfi and gulab jamun at the Oakroom!

I have to say, at first instinct, I was very defensive of Primo's choice to serve gelato not made in house, because of the quality of the Gilberto Gelato product. But David and Ethan have made very valid points. And I do think it is important for any restaurant, especially one that receives 4 stars, to treat dessert as a full and important course, and to ensure that the desserts are up to the standard that everything else in the restaurant is held to.

Thanks guys for the reality check. I have to admit, when I go to a restaurant to dine, I am certainly going to judge the quality of the dessert as much as any other course. There are several places I frequent mainly because of their delectable desserts.

I've had the panna cotta at Primo. It was excellent.