wendy's to roll out artisan breakfast here november -lou

I think some of you have already fallen victim to the Big Lie, that we can't survive without McDonald's and the absolute familiarity of mediocre Americana. That we can't as individuals solve problems and achieve solutions.

Chains only in America or around the world? I'll be the first to admit chains have a front seat for mediocracy, but their larger presence is able to reach more people in harder to reach places around the world; offering them jobs that do not exist.

Any form of employment is conducive to a healthy lifestyle, it's not always about the money.
The chain restaurants can offer people the opportunity to become a mainstream member of society, and create structure and balance in their lives.

Extremism is any form is a lethal and dangerous behavior.

Let's all move to the comfortable middle as quickly as possible.

Extremism is any form is a lethal and dangerous behavior.

Let's all move to the comfortable middle as quickly as possible.

Just a curmudgeonly observation but if we could -somehow- get rid of the 10% of nut cases on the far-far right right along with the 10% of the nut cases on the far-far left, the other 80% of us could find a way to get along just fine and dandy. Just sayin'.

Let's all move to the comfortable middle as quickly as possible.

You're saying working at a chain restaurant makes one less of a person?

Let's all move to the comfortable middle as quickly as possible.

You're saying working at a chain restaurant makes one less of a person?

No not at all.

There's an issue of agency in Heather's statement. The worker has no control over his/her situation, left to depend on the warm-hearted corporation to provide not what the worker might want but surely what the corporation wants - structure and balance dependent on the chain. Paternalism at its best.

That's all I'm trying to say. Let's be careful for concluding what other people - usually those with less power than us - want. That's all.

Extremism is any form is a lethal and dangerous behavior.

Let's all move to the comfortable middle as quickly as possible.

Just a curmudgeonly observation but if we could -somehow- get rid of the 10% of nut cases on the far-far right right along with the 10% of the nut cases on the far-far left, the other 80% of us could find a way to get along just fine and dandy. Just sayin'.

You're overstating the homogeneous nature of the remaining 80%. There will always be fringes, personal interests, power, conflict....

Unless you are making an argument for socialism.

You're overstating the homogeneous nature of the remaining 80%. There will always be fringes, personal interests, power, conflict....

Oh I'm not sayin' it would be a homogeneous lot by any stretch of the imagination. All I'm sayin' is if we were (somehow) able to ship off to a desert island the 10% of the goofballs on the way far extreme of either end of the political spectrum the rest of us could probably figure out a way to get things done (probably with a lot more peace and harmony).

But hey, this is kinda bumpin' up against my self imposed policy against discussing politics or religion. That and I really must go freshen up...The cocktail hour is fast approaching. Toodles.

You're overstating the homogeneous nature of the remaining 80%. There will always be fringes, personal interests, power, conflict....

Oh I'm not sayin' it would be a homogeneous lot by any stretch of the imagination. All I'm sayin' is if we were (somehow) able to ship off to a desert island the 10% of the goofballs on the way far extreme of either end of the political spectrum the rest of us could probably figure out a way to get things done (probably with a lot more peace and harmony).

But hey, this is kinda bumpin' up against my self imposed policy against discussing politics or religion. That and I really must go freshen up...The cocktail hour is fast approaching. Toodles.

Yeah, I'm not really that interested in this part of the conversation either. The reality is that we, as a society, just need to quit being sucked into the bizarre. Just embrace our own boring existences, instead of getting all caught up in whoever is the crazy person of the week. 40,000 people going to see Palin?* Decrease that crowd to 500 and we'd have your island effect without even needing the island.

Enjoy the drinks.

* Steve is right. There are crazies on both sides. I just used the Palin example because she is bringing her craziness here.

[Robin Garr]

Let's all move to the comfortable middle as quickly as possible.

You've got to admit, the "Via Media" worked very well indeed for Elizabeth I.

Heather Y, your experience with indie ownership is one example among many stories of success and failure. There is no reason for your story to be the final story on indies though.

I have no interest being in the comfortable middle where mediocrity is the standard. The fringes are where the real action happens, where real debate and radical views collide, its a shame that "accepting the norm" has become the norm. Apparently, we have forgotten the value of intelligent debate.

The extremist view to me is eliminating the 20% that have passion whilst maintaining the 80% stagnant majority. Ground breaking changes are always initiated by the fringes (in all aspects of our lives - politics, medicine, food, technology).

Most of our immaculate chains began as independent dreams. From the views of some members of this forum, we're incapable of those same dreams presently. It is too hard, there is no money, you can't make enough to survive, and there is no possibility that you can provide for employees as well as chain restaurants are a few of the excuses I've read on this thread.

Succumbing to defeat before getting out of your chair exemplifies the "middle" to me.
I want no part of the self-fulfilling prophecy of Mc Mediocre world.

Remember the fringes the next time you dine at an exciting new independent with a creative chef. (they could have chosen the middle and be cooking at Ruby Tuesdays or Chilis)

The problem with the "it's reality" argument is that history is littered with the carcasses of reality abruptly altered. I appreciate that some readers understood my reference to Goebbels , whom I find abhorrent; I find the chain fast food ethos equally repugnant, sterile , and not the sort of thing to be greeted with a shrug and "that's the way it us."

Shawn: Gee, how do we do it? How do we manage in the very face of Papa John in da house?

Heather Y, your experience with indie ownership is one example among many stories of success and failure. There is no reason for your story to be the final story on indies though.

I have no interest being in the comfortable middle where mediocrity is the standard. The fringes are where the real action happens, where real debate and radical views collide, its a shame that "accepting the norm" has become the norm. Apparently, we have forgotten the value of intelligent debate.

The extremist view to me is eliminating the 20% that have passion whilst maintaining the 80% stagnant majority. Ground breaking changes are always initiated by the fringes (in all aspects of our lives - politics, medicine, food, technology).

Most of our immaculate chains began as independent dreams. From the views of some members of this forum, we're incapable of those same dreams presently. It is too hard, there is no money, you can't make enough to survive, and there is no possibility that you can provide for employees as well as chain restaurants are a few of the excuses I've read on this thread.

Succumbing to defeat before getting out of your chair exemplifies the "middle" to me.
I want no part of the self-fulfilling prophecy of Mc Mediocre world.

Remember the fringes the next time you dine at an exciting new independent with a creative chef. (they could have chosen the middle and be cooking at Ruby Tuesdays or Chilis)

Effing brilliant and well stated! Bravo!!

And just for the record, we have lost one chain pizza restaurant in Charlestown, gained another chain pizza restaurant,
and gained three new independents in the past couple of years
(one mexican/american, one taco truck, and one "grill")

Wow, another very thoughtful and insightful discussion brought to you via Hotbytes! (And I'm not being sarcastic.)The only thing I might add is I don't see the problem as being with restaurant chains per se, but chains do seem to suffer symptomatically from the lack of passion often found in indies. Some franchise owners manage to keep their passion, if not for the product at least for the customer service aspect/public service aspect of the business. And it's harder for them because they have to operate in such narrow guidelines. (Ironically those guidelines were originally offered to keep the chains product value high. Now, not so much.)

The problem (as I see it) is not specifically with chains but rather ANY business - restaurant, newspaper, dog-catcher or whatever- that puts profits alone above all else. Making a profit at the expense of your pride in workmanship or your contribution to the society or your community as a whole. That's where things bog down and rapidly start to disintegrate. Chains simply lend themselves to that unfortunate process faster than indies. It seems now if anyone balks at the idea of hugh profits above all else they are labeled a socialist or a communist and looked at askance.

The only other thing I'll add is I agree with the disintegration of marketing/advertising into little more than propaganda and swollen hype. Too often we now see newspapers that were once functioned as sources for supplying real news to a community become nothing more than vehicles for advertising. The news is no longer the reason for the paper's being, it's the advertising and marketing. The news is little more than a second thought and often suffers when put in direct conflict with advertising dollars.

Perhaps (and again this is only MY opinion) Roger is passionate with his responses because he has seen the evil results of this societal evolution first hand. We may all be this passionate when we see our OWN jobs and livelihoods farmed out to cheaper ways and means.

As an added note...

The news is no longer the reason for the paper's being, it's the advertising and marketing. The news is little more than a second thought and often suffers when put in direct conflict with advertising dollars.

NOT A PROBLEM AT HOTBYTES!!! At least this group strives to be fair even if sometimes extremely opinionated.