What if...

I'll start by making it clear that I agree with the sentiment of this post. I strive to never hold personal and political opinions against anyone. Nor have I ever based a decision to patronize a business based on the personal and political positions and opinions of the owners or management.

However, I don't think this forum is as welcoming as many would like to believe. I truly don't wish to taint the kind sentiments of this thread, but I feel it must be noted that we were asked on this forum to take our business away from Whole Foods based on a political opinion expressed by their CEO. And this sordid appeal was presented by an owner of a local prepared food purveyor! Plus many on this forum gladly joined this call to punish that political expression, and felt self righteous about it.

Say what you will, but it is not surprising that many err on the side of caution when it comes to this forum.

I find this a bit disturbing. Not that Steve H. said it (I think all of us occasionally need a mirror held up to us so that we may see how we appear to others) but because it appears to foster a muted silence in others. Have we really been all that overbearing with our opinions that others are afraid to post THEIR opinions? I recall the Whole Foods threads. I read them all and thought "screw it I'm going there anyway." And I'll see many of the "don't go to WF" faction at off lines and it'll be fine. Still I did appreciate the information offered about the business.

I understand what you're saying Steve but it's a public forum with give and take. It has sincere, sometimes strong opinions. I wouldn't want anyone to quite posting simply because they disagree with a few of the posters. If that happens where's the dialogue? Where's the enlightenment? If we only post ideas and opinions that only agree with everybody else's opinion than aren't those opinions diluted, and of little value? I guess I'm on here about as much as anybody and I still occasionally eat at Micky D's and KFC. (Cue the rotten fruit throwing in 3... 2... 1...) Some may bash me others will only shrug. I really have my reasons for what I do and I respect that others have theirs.

As I said before, I seriously doubt that the reason the leading chefs in Louisville may or may not be posting on LHBs is because of the political leanings of some of the posters. I think they are simply extremely busy keeping about a buhzillion balls in the air with their business. Perhaps they don't realize how much such postings would be appreciated by the forum members so they think "why bother?". So once again, thanks to Stephen D if he can bring it to their attention that such postings would be welcome, regardless of their political/socio leanings.

Stephen, thank you for posting this subject.

As a chef, I avoided this site like it was the plague for a long time, I am still very mindful of the subjects I post on and what I say. The only thing worse than having your work reviewed by every person that walks in the door, is getting off work after a 16 hour day jumping on LHB to find that a guest’s needs were not satisfied and instead dealing with management, some of you think it is a better idea to create a thread about it instead of letting the management of the restaurant fix the problem. You know who you are and for this I curse you as cowards.

I have read topics about “unnamed” restaurants knowing that my place of employment was the target, and was told to keep my mouth shut let it go. I could not defend myself or my staff even when the whole truth was not being told in fear that it would come back to bite me later. This site and the people who use it hold more power than they realize. Your words have a huge impact on the restaurant community……

I will not give the names of any chef that has confided in me on this topic, but I am going to tell you some of the things they have said:

Chef A – I hate that stupid site wish it was never created.

Chef B – I don’t post on LHB anymore it makes me sick.

Chef C – F$%k LHB!

Bartender A – LHB is the new Louisville Mojo.

Chef D- We have to be careful of what we post on LHB. Sadly, we need them.

Host A – Somebody told me I should know them from LHB and I should take good care of them.

Again, I will never call out the people who made the comments listed but I can tell you this they are real. Some of them were made over drinks after work, some were made in the kitchens of the best known restaurants in the city….. Think about it folks this is what some of Louisville best chefs think of you and you opinions.

And kyle, with all due respect, you would have sounded more intelligent if you posted “I don’t understand” as opposed to “huh”.

[Robin Garr]

Michael, with all respect, I'd like to ask how you can reconcile these two apparently contradictory statements:

some of you think it is a better idea to create a thread about it instead of letting the management of the restaurant fix the problem. You know who you are and for this I curse you as cowards.

I will not give the names of any chef that has confided in me on this topic, but I am going to tell you some of the things they have said:

Not a single one of those chefs has had the ... well, you know ... to contact me directly about this. Without knowing who they are, they should all know that I'll receive their criticism civilly and listen respectfully.

But the river flows both ways, good sir. I can't respond to criticism if it doesn't come to me. And I don't feel any better about anonymous reposts than you do.

This site and the people who use it hold more power than they realize. Your words have a huge impact on the restaurant community……

I will not give the names of any chef that has confided in me on this topic, but I am going to tell you some of the things they have said:

Chef A – I hate that stupid site wish it was never created.

Chef B – I don’t post on LHB anymore it makes me sick.

Chef C – F$%k LHB!

Bartender A – LHB is the new Louisville Mojo.

Chef D- We have to be careful of what we post on LHB. Sadly, we need them.

Host A – Somebody told me I should know them from LHB and I should take good care of them.

Again, I will never call out the people who made the comments listed but I can tell you this they are real. Some of them were made over drinks after work, some were made in the kitchens of the best known restaurants in the city….. Think about it folks this is what some of Louisville best chefs think of you and you opinions.

I think the last line is a little uncalled for - "think about it folks this what some of Louisville best chefs things of you and you opinions." Just a little ways up, you said, "his site and the people who use it hold more power than they realize. Your words have a huge impact on the restaurant community……" That impact swings many ways - positive reviews, negative reviews, name dropping as in "as anybody tried X," congratulations for new openings and achievements, actual dollars spent, etc. For you to repeat what anonymous chefs have said seems of little value considering they are outsiders to a community that has certain rituals, practices, rules, etc.

You are also willingly overlooking the chefs that do participate on the forum. I'd rather not get into a comparison of the value of who does and who does not participate, but instead merely point out that your sampling does not represent the opinion of all chefs and biz people.

I will not give the names of any chef that has confided in me on this topic, but I am going to tell you some of the things they have said:

Chef A – I hate that stupid site wish it was never created.

Chef B – I don’t post on LHB anymore it makes me sick.

Chef C – F$%k LHB!

Bartender A – LHB is the new Louisville Mojo.

Chef D- We have to be careful of what we post on LHB. Sadly, we need them.

Host A – Somebody told me I should know them from LHB and I should take good care of them.

Think about it folks this is what some of Louisville best chefs think of you and you opinions.

First, whoever said, "you should know me from LHB and you should take good care of me" is an asshole.

Hotbytes does far more good than bad for the Louisville dining scene. Ask Joe Davola's and Papalino's what Hotbytes has done for their business. Without this site, I would have never heard of either. Now I am sending everyone I can their direction and getting lunch delivered to my work. The negative comments on this site are few a far between when compared to the positive.

Any chef or owner that is not reading this website is missing the most valuable resource available, honest, unbiased, free, feedback. How many people have a bad experience at a restaurant, don't tell management and then spread the word to everyone they know? At least with Hotbytes the management can see the problems and fix them or address them on this forum. I have great respect for all the chefs that post on this site and wish more would.

Last, if a restaurant critic has a bad experience, do they ask management to fix the problems before they write a review? I've never seen a professional review that said anything about speaking to management.

Robin, I am not speaking about you personally. I am speaking of LHB as a community.

I do not understand how those two statements contradict each other.

“Some of you think it is a better idea to create a thread about it instead of letting the management of the restaurant fix the problem. You know who you are and for this I curse you as cowards.”

Threads have been created specifically for people to complain about a restaurant having never mentioned that they talked to a member of the management team to try to solve the problem. In my eyes they did not want to solve the problem. They just wanted to create drama.

“I will not give the names of any chef that has confided in me on this topic, but I am going to tell you some of the things they have said:”

They never spoke of you personally but it is how some feel about the LHB community. Why would they come to you and complain? Far too much is on the line for them.

Matthew D: Yes, reading it now I could have worded it a little better, but I still stand behind what I said and will not apologize for it.

JustinHammond: I am not talking about a professional review. Each time a personal sits down at a table, they are a food critic. If you write about it and post that review for public viewing on sites such as this one, then I am referring to you.

Robin, I am not speaking about you personally. I am speaking of LHB as a community.

I do not understand how those two statements contradict each other.

“Some of you think it is a better idea to create a thread about it instead of letting the management of the restaurant fix the problem. You know who you are and for this I curse you as cowards.”

Threads have been created specifically for people to complain about a restaurant having never mentioned that they talked to a member of the management team to try to solve the problem. In my eyes they did not want to solve the problem. They just wanted to create drama.

“I will not give the names of any chef that has confided in me on this topic, but I am going to tell you some of the things they have said:”

They never spoke of you personally but it is how some feel about the LHB community. Why would they come to you and complain? Far too much is on the line for them.

Matthew D: Yes, reading it now I could have worded it a little better, but I still stand behind what I said and will not apologize for it.

JustinHammond: I am not talking about a professional review. Each time a personal sits down at a table, they are a food critic. If you write about it and post that review for public viewing on sites such as this one, then I am referring to you.

I'm going to try to put this nicely, even though that's not my strongest trait.

If so much is on the line for them, then you shouldn't come here and present their complaints anonymously when part of your complaint is about LHB members making accusations without naming the establishment. If I read between the lines of what you are saying, you are saying one form of anonymity is fine (you re-telling what others have told you without sourcing the information) because "too much is on the line" for these people while us not-so-important folks should be ashamed of anonymous accusations.

I'm totally, 100% against anonymous anything. Only recently has journalism at large been open to the use of unnamed sources, and, more times than not, the resulting story is crap or a level just above. But your point reeks of elitism when you submit complaints against LHB members for making anonymous complaints by turning to anonymous sources. While I have no reason to doubt your credibility as a person, your quotes completely lack credibility without attribution. And, to be fair, I feel the exact same way about posts that lodge complaints without naming names.

The only thing worse than having your work reviewed by every person that walks in the door, is getting off work after a 16 hour day jumping on LHB to find that a guest’s needs were not satisfied and instead dealing with management, some of you think it is a better idea to create a thread about it instead of letting the management of the restaurant fix the problem. You know who you are and for this I curse you as cowards.

I'm tired of looking though all the posistve reviews for the threads created for bashing a restaurant. Any specific examples you can link to?

[Robin Garr]

Robin, I am not speaking about you personally. I am speaking of LHB as a community.

Michael, I guess when you talk about my baby, you're saying things that sting me. The forum is the way it is because of my policy decisions to operate it in the way I do, as an open forum where Louisville's foodie community, both civilian and industry, can come together and discuss dining issues openly. Debate, yes. Criticize, sure. But always, I hope, in a civil and reasonably intelligent way. I think there's room for that, but yeah, I can see where negative criticism stings some chefs, just as your list of anonymous complaints - some of them pretty nasty - stings me. Shoe, meet other foot.

I do not understand how those two statements contradict each other.

I think Matthew D explained it as well as I could have.

Michael, I've interviewed you, tasted your cooking, know you to be a good guy. I'm glad you are here, and glad you feel free to express your opinions. I wish you could have done it without resorting to quoting anonymous sources who chose to attack the forum, though.

I love food....I cook food....food is good! (not rocket surgery here,,,just sayin)

[Robin Garr]

I love food....I cook food....food is good! (not rocket surgery here,,,just sayin)

I can sign on to all that! Have a beer, brutha!

Michael is not completely off base.

This site is comprised of industry people and non-industry people alike. The thing is... the non-industry folk can post here with impunity. Those of us "in the biz" have to be careful about what we post, for obvious professional reasons.

It stands to reason that those with nothing to lose will be much more vocal and determined in their opinions than those who are the subject of scrutiny.

The OP's base point was about how great it would be if the great chefs of the city contributed more to this site. Michael's response had a lot to do with why a lot of them don't. I don't disagree with him. I have also heard it said, by chefs, that this site is a pain in their asses... but I have also heard it said, by owners, that it is a great boon.

The answer is somewhere in the middle. My personal opinion should be pretty evident by my number of posts thus far.

JustinHammond: I am not talking about a professional review. Each time a personal sits down at a table, they are a food critic. If you write about it and post that review for public viewing on sites such as this one, then I am referring to you.

Truer words were never spoken. But I wonder Michael, are you suggesting that because someone isn't getting paid for their opinion that have no right to share their opinion? It seems to me that this is little more than 'word of mouth' buzz. At least here recipients have the opportunity to address any negative buzz.

JustinHammond: I am not talking about a professional review. Each time a personal sits down at a table, they are a food critic. If you write about it and post that review for public viewing on sites such as this one, then I am referring to you.

Truer words were never spoken. But I wonder Michael, are you suggesting that because someone isn't getting paid for their opinion that have no right to share their opinion? It seems to me that this is little more than 'word of mouth' buzz. At least here recipients have the opportunity to address any negative buzz.

That was my point exactly. Why should a "professional" review be any different from our reviews? The professional gives his/her first opinion of a restaurant, not the opinion after management has comped or replaced their meal. I put more weight on a "non-professional" review than a pro review. We mere customers have nothing to gain or lose by writing a honest review, while the pros are often known by the restaurant (and receive the best) or know the owners/chef and might take it easy on them. If I had a restaurant and saw Marty or Robin walk in, you can bet the bank they would get special attention.

"It's the judges table."

I see LHB as a community that overlaps with the "non-virtual" dining community in Louisville. The term "dining community" is purposely vague, as it includes all the positions that would be impossible to list that go into forming a "dining community."

So there's the dining community at large and the section of that dining community that post on LHB. As the two are not the same, there are customs, practices, rules, etc. to what goes on here. LHB is like any other community in that insiders are marked by certain traits and behaviors and outsiders are marked by traits and behaviors that are different from those of insiders.

On one hand, people in the biz possess the most important trait that is "required" to be "in" here - an interest in, knowledge of, and love for food. They also possess other traits that are common to those of us around here, and not all these traits are positive all of the time. One example would be to demonstrate the "human" trait of saying something inflammatory out of passion. Seems the point that is at the center of our current conversation is that such a demonstration would be much more consequential for the in-biz person than any other person on here.

While there might not be a set-in-stone solution to that "problem" - it might just be the cost of doing business and participating in our online community - I would have to think that the best way to take advantage of LHB's influence is to regularly participate in our community functions and discussions. Sure, the big issue there is time (none of us have enough of it!), but it would seem the big benefit would be that the rest of us would be able to put a face with a name, and, as is human nature, we would probably be much less likely to unprofessionally or professionally criticize a place where we know a real, human being at the controls. If nothing else, such "complaints" would be met with actual conversation that would be productive for both sides.

There sure seem to be establishments that have been graced with the LHB seal of approval - Seviche, that new pizza place, that new sandwich place (too early to remember names!), Boombozz, NABC, all of Dean's places, Will's place, CQ - and, from my perspective, just a little of that human bias probably comes from the fact that these people, at least from their participation on the forum, are "one of us."