Take It Easy On Our Locals

Everyone has been affected by the recession. that's no excuse for poor service/bad food. If I do a bad job, I can't blame it on the recession, I imagine my boss would take issue with that. If anything, the local places should be working HARDER to retain business. I'm sorry, but I think in order for the local dining scene and this forum to stay relevant, not only should honesty be tolerated, it should be encouraged. Not all our local restaurants deserve to survive. Some are excellent, some are not. If I do my job well, I get rewarded, if I do it poorly, I get reprimanded. Nobody is going to come to my aid and say, "Oh, cut Michelle some slack, it's not her fault, it's the recession!" Why should a restaurant be any different? My husband and I had a HORRIBLE experience at a local place a month or so ago, and we won't be returning. We also told some friends who asked about the place about our experience. However, we did suggest several other local places that are wonderful. Was that wrong? Should we have NOT related our experience to our friends? I guarantee that the problems at that place had NOTHING to do with the recession.

"Louisville has the second highest independent restaurant success rate in the country, second only to San Francisco"

...this is a great stat! Where is this info from??

We also eat more Hostess Donettes than any city in the U.S.

Source: Unwrapped on Food Network

I guarantee that the problems at that place had NOTHING to do with the recession.

What I took from the original post was not that the perceived problems in a restaurant are because of the recession/tough economy. Rather it was a suggestion that we not pile onto restaurants that slip up or offer less than the best in service or food. I didn't read the original post as explaining away the problems using the tough economy. I read it as more of a, "Take it easy on our locals, because these posts have influence. Even though you had a crappy experience, by trumpeting it far and wide, you may be really hurting a business that's already hurting financially."

I see nothing wrong with treating the forum as it is - an exchange of ideas and opinions, heated or not. But I have found myself thinking twice and sometimes three times before posting something entirely negative about an experience at a restaurant. I ask myself, "What will be gained from my posting about the dinner I just had that I didn't like/poor service I got/etc.? Perhaps more can be gained by speaking with the management and resolving the problem that way, and if not, just stop going there if I don't appreciate their business model." I know that others see a reason to warn others against visiting some places because their experience was just that bad, and that's their right.

I'll repeat, I don't think anything like that should be squelched - everyone's free to say what they will, and the reader can make their own judgment of whether to visit or not. But speaking just for myself, I know what a hard time everyone is having, and probably err on the too-cautious side.

Our experience WAS just that bad. The industry I work in (real estate) has it every bit as hard as the restaurant industry, and I guarantee nobody is cutting Realtors any slack. At the end of the day, people still expect their houses to get sold. I'm sorry, but a bad experience is a bad experience, recession or not. I come here to make informed decisions about where to spend my hard earned money. I've posted about great experiences we've had, and awful ones. Only posting good reviews to spare people losing business isn't doing any good, in the long run. If a place is good, word will get out, if it's bad, word will get out. Pussyfooting around, and posting only positive reviews is only going to delay the inevitable. If a place is bad, it's bad, and no amount of avoiding the 800lb gorilla in the room is going to fix that.

Every person has a right to express their dissatisfaction. I don't believe anyone here is saying persons can not express their opinion when a situation is not up to standards. IMHO... When people complain to the public and not management, then I give their critique less value.

" The Server was rude. "
" The Food was bad. "
" Out bill was wrong. "

- What did you say to the manager?

" OH. We didn't talk to the manager "
------------

Sorry. It's a shame your experience was poor, but you did nothing to improve it by at least talking to a manager.

[Robin Garr]

Just to clarify again, there's been a lot of useful input to this discussion, and I think we should all consider it respectfully.

At the end of the day, though, we're here as a community of foodies, both consumers and industry people. We're hear to talk about eats and eateries, and no subject is off the table, although a modicum of civility and common sense is highly recommended. There are no taboos, and it is difficult (although not impossible) to post something so virulent that censorship is called for.

The forum is, after all, a discussion group, and if everybody is walking on eggshells, there can't be much in the way of discussions.

Every person has a right to express their dissatisfaction. I don't believe anyone here is saying persons can not express their opinion when a situation is not up to standards. IMHO... When people complain to the public and not management, then I give their critique less value.

" The Server was rude. "
" The Food was bad. "
" Out bill was wrong. "

- What did you say to the manager?

" OH. We didn't talk to the manager "
------------

Sorry. It's a shame your experience was poor, but you did nothing to improve it by at least talking to a manager.

And what are your feelings when people DO go to the manager, (as we did) and the issue was still not resolved? Is it politically correct to complain then?

Of course posting whatever honest review you have of a restaurant is encouraged by the forum. I don't suggest cutting any slack if you believe you've gotten less than what you paid for. It's the step in between seeking resolution and posting comments on a public forum that I'm talking about here.

I go back to my question, "What will be gained?" If you're aiming to get your issue resolved, I believe that can best be achieved by addressing it at the time. If you've asked the folks to address your legitimate concerns and still aren't satisfied, then that place has a problem, and people would probably want to know that the management isn't concerned with customer satisfaction. If your goal is to warn everyone about the place so they lose business, that's clearly allowed, but for some reason I don't always feel comfortable doing that. Perhaps I am not the ideal candidate for posting on a forum. Oh well.

I know that experiences are entirely subjective and people's preferences are different, and that's the point of this whole exercise, I guess. I wouldn't hesitate to mix the bad with the good in a review of a restaurant, but I find myself stopping short of totally blasting a place because I had a bad experience. Not sure why, but political correctness certainly doesn't enter in. I'm probably just overly sensitive to the fact that it's someone's livelihood. For the same reason, I would not go on a real estate message board and blast some realtor because I had a bad experience. That doesn't mean I am not expecting the best, it just means I choose to deal with my dissatisfaction more privately than others do.

My choice in dealing with a bad restaurant experience is to take my problem up with the management and seek resolution, and it usually stops there. I consider myself lucky to have very few horrible experiences, so maybe that's why I haven't been inspired to lambaste some establishment on here. Anyone's free to post whatever they want, clearly. Legitimate gripes are fine, and will help a restaurant function better. Word certainly gets out either way if a restaurant has a pattern of bad service or food; you're right about that.

My husband and I are extremely easy to please. Keep our glasses filled, and you get a good tip. In the two negative reviews I have posted in the several years I have been an active member, there was absolutely NOTHING redeeming or positive about either experience to post, otherwise I would have included that, and both times, I've posted more as a "FYI, Your mileage may vary", as opposed to an outright lambasting. At both places, we attempted very politely to deal with management, and both times, we were brushed off.

Completely off topic, but to be quite honest, the title of the thread really bothers me. In this economy, we should all hate to see ANY place close. Chain or not, those are still local people who are out of work. I have noticed some members of this forum posting with outright GLEE when a chain closes (one right at the Holidays, leaving a whole bunch of local people unemployed), yet anyone who dares utter a word against a local place is questioned (in general). It seems somewhat hypocritical. Just my two cents.

[Robin Garr]

.. anyone who dares utter a word against a local place is questioned (in general). It seems somewhat hypocritical. Just my two cents.

With all respect, Michelle, I don't think that fairly describes what happens here. Look at the Toast on Market thread currently ongoing. Fair comments and strong opinions on both sides, but everyone is being civil, and there's no suggestion that the people objecting to their seating policy should shut up and just take it.

I don't think it would be at all hard to find other examples. When Ray Parella's closed, a lot of regret was expressed, but there was also a lot of candid discussion about the service issues that may have led to its demise. And so it goes.

Repeating: The only taboos here go against flaming (personal attacks) and unsolicited spamming. Everyone has the right to speak their mind - and everyone has a right to post into any conversation with comment, civil disagreement or even off-topic thread hijacking.

Many of us have a preference for local businesses, and that's fair. It's also fair to debate that. I just don't see the problem here, and I think most restaurateurs are thick-skinned enough to recognize forum criticism as an opportunity for growth and improvement rather than something to run away from.

As stated by many before- It is best to tell the management that there is a problem. If it is not resolved, then by all means, post away. I think to just walk away in a huff and then to post does not do any good for anyone. We love to hear the good things, of course, the bad things are a way for us to grow and improve.

Many of us have a preference for local businesses, and that's fair. It's also fair to debate that. I just don't see the problem here, and I think most restaurateurs are thick-skinned enough to recognize forum criticism as an opportunity for growth and improvement rather than something to run away from.

[Robin Garr]

As stated by many before- It is best to tell the management that there is a problem. If it is not resolved, then by all means, post away. I think to just walk away in a huff and then to post does not do any good for anyone. We love to hear the good things, of course, the bad things are a way for us to grow and improve.

As a matter of good practice, Will, I'd encourage folks to do that, and I think most people who become regular participants in the forum understand this.

That said, though, I don't see how I can make that a firm rule without compromising the openness of the forum. And I will say that without question, every time I've seen a negative experience posted in which a representative of the restaurant came to the forum and responded reasonably - I don't mean sucking up, either, but simply giving a straight-shooting reply - I think our participants recognize and honor that.

Just to clarify again, there's been a lot of useful input to this discussion, and I think we should all consider it respectfully.

At the end of the day, though, we're here as a community of foodies, both consumers and industry people. We're hear to talk about eats and eateries, and no subject is off the table, although a modicum of civility and common sense is highly recommended. There are no taboos, and it is difficult (although not impossible) to post something so virulent that censorship is called for.

The forum is, after all, a discussion group, and if everybody is walking on eggshells, there can't be much in the way of discussions.

Well said Robin. I appreciate the way you administrate the community around here in that you walk a delicate but certain balance between letting things go where they go and articulating the expectations of the community. I'm not sure there's a way to measure the influence LHB has on the local dining community, but, needless to say, there would be less of a community were we not to have a place to go and talk about all the fine local places. It's sad to think, given some of the conversation, that some people would like us to live the monastic life and dine in silence!

Every person has a right to express their dissatisfaction. I don't believe anyone here is saying persons can not express their opinion when a situation is not up to standards. IMHO... When people complain to the public and not management, then I give their critique less value.

" The Server was rude. "
" The Food was bad. "
" Out bill was wrong. "

- What did you say to the manager?

" OH. We didn't talk to the manager "
------------

Sorry. It's a shame your experience was poor, but you did nothing to improve it by at least talking to a manager.

Sorry I don't buy that. Talking to management is a good idea and I encourage that, but it doesn't change "bad food", "bad service", "wrong bills". Some people don't want to talk to the manager...it's their choice. That doesn't make the experience less valid.

It's sad to think, given some of the conversation, that some people would like us to live the monastic life and dine in silence!

I'm confused about the "dine in silence" thing. I haven't read anyone, chef or mere mortal alike who has advocated for only saying nice things about restaurants, and that definitely is not the point I'm making. I say just do it mindfully.