MR. MAYOR ITS TIME TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE!

How many of you want to pay hard earned money to live in a "mixed income" area?

I think it depends on the price point. If very nice condo's are selling in LG for much less than at Gallery Lofts across the street then there will be buyers. I understand that a high percentage of the lofts in the old Stewart's storage building are rented. That is urban pioneering.

[Robin Garr]

We need to have 3rd street remain mostly residential, and we are currently getting a Heine Bros. at Woodlawn and Southern Parkway. Also Tom O'Shea of O'Shea's lives in the neighborhood as well as a bunch of doctors, judges, VP's and U of L profs. It's not really as blue collar as parts of Clifton and Crescent Hill. You might be surprised at who actually lives here, of course I'm biased because I moved over here from that Hillbilly land of Pewee Valley.

Still swimming against the current,

Gary, I hope I made it clear that I understand Beechmont, Iroquois and environs are only "stereotyped" as blue-collar and that the nabe's demographic is actually much more diverse. I do believe, though, that until this *reputation* is overcome, then Beechmonters are going to have to continue driving east for their upscale dining and much of their gor-may grocery needs. (It was, and as far as I know, still is, pretty much the same in Old Louisville when I lived there in another life.)

Here is the real reson LG will fail: How many of you want to pay hard earned money to live in a "mixed income" area?

There are plenty of mixed developments already in this market and they are rapidly becoming a fact of life for many new developments. Besides, what's wrong with living near someone who might make more or less than you?

[Robin Garr]

There are plenty of mixed developments already in this market and they are rapidly becoming a fact of life for many new developments. Besides, what's wrong with living near someone who might make more or less than you?

I think most of us who live in Louisville's great urban neighborhoods wouldn't find this concept to be all that novel, although certainly there's <i>some</i> economic segregation.

I would definitely consider a mixed-income neighborhood.

My understanding of real-estate development is that, overall, there's a higher profit margin for new high-end condos (and McMansions) than new "affordable housing." In light of that, you can't blame developers for aiming at that market. However, government can support a balance toward more mixed-income housing with appropriate tax incentives. It's being done in Chicago with the housing that is replacing Cabrini Green.

It seems that Louisville has a sufficient number of people who are interested in urban living, yet not high-income enough to swing a "luxury" condo. Market Street could be populated fairly quickly, I think, if lower-cost options were available.

I would definitely consider a mixed-income neighborhood.

My understanding of real-estate development is that, overall, there's a higher profit margin for new high-end condos (and McMansions) than new "affordable housing." In light of that, you can't blame developers for aiming at that market. However, government can support a balance toward more mixed-income housing with appropriate tax incentives. It's being done in Chicago with the housing that is replacing Cabrini Green.

It seems that Louisville has a sufficient number of people who are interested in urban living, yet not high-income enough to swing a "luxury" condo. Market Street could be populated fairly quickly, I think, if lower-cost options were available.

You have it exactly right, Sonja. Well said.

Well, allison, thanks for addressing the quesiton. And spurring the current direction.
b

Bill you hit the nail on the head.

I was interested to read the comment about the desirability of "street lights like the ones on Second Street." If you happen to be referencing the ones on any of the streets in Old Louisville, (along with the decorative trash cans and decorative flower urns) then know that the neighborhood associations bought, paid for the installation and pay the electric bill every month on those. No help at all from the city. Neighborhoods write grant proposals, hold fundraisers, collect dues and of course the St. James Art Show funds a lot of neighborhood improvements.

If you're referencing the period-style street lights on the downtown part of second Street, then the city did put those in and maintains them.

The lack of basic city funded period-correct amenities is always an irritating point for old Louisviallians.

We, too would consider moving downtown into a loft or condo, but we're priced out of that market.

Bring back Dave Armstrong. He did more for downtown in 4 years that Jerry did in 13+.

I would definitely consider a mixed-income neighborhood.

My understanding of real-estate development is that, overall, there's a higher profit margin for new high-end condos (and McMansions) than new "affordable housing." In light of that, you can't blame developers for aiming at that market. However, government can support a balance toward more mixed-income housing with appropriate tax incentives. It's being done in Chicago with the housing that is replacing Cabrini Green.

It seems that Louisville has a sufficient number of people who are interested in urban living, yet not high-income enough to swing a "luxury" condo. Market Street could be populated fairly quickly, I think, if lower-cost options were available.

You just described Old Louisville. Lots of great stuff for sale down there right now, you should go take a look. I can recommend a real estate agent who lives in Old Louisville and specializes in those properties.

This is an interesting discussion.

As a small biz owner downtown I find issues of development, gentrification and housing near to my sphere of interests. Down here on E. Market St. there is a lot of development going on. Lots of condos going up, not many affordable apartments.

I worry that a monoculture is developing down here. The fact that I personaly have nearly a dozen friends that would love to live downtown if they could only find a condo here for what they can buy a house in Germantown/Crescent Hill/Clifton. Or friends who would love to rent an apartment/loft if they could only find one somewhere in the east main market district.

People ask me all the time if the lofts above the espresso bar are occupied. While redevelopment is great it needs to be sustainable and mixed use and mixed income, Otherwise all of this hype will go for naught.
I know for a fact that a lot of the condo/lofts in the Mercantile/Park Place Lofts are not being sold. Other projects have (The Bacon-Debrovy Lofts) not even broken ground.

While I believe in this burgeoning neighborhood (I wouldn't have opened my coffee lounge here if I didn't), I fear that without the economic diversity that one sees in Germantown/Old Louisville/Clifton/Highlands
it will be difficult for the 'hood' to attract the so-called 'creative class'.

Many of my other friends would rather live in Germantown even though it's old and the houses are drafty because it's a real community and not one planned by the developers.

I know I've rambled here a bit this morning... but I haven't made my morning cappuccino yet.
Think I'll do that now.

[Robin Garr]

a real community and not one planned by the developers.

A very thoughtful and telling observation, Matthew. The worst possible outcome (short of the city shelling out and decaying) would be the development of a "suburban" community downtown, developer-driven housing stock to match Fourth Street Live.

As gasoline prices rise and people start streaming back from the suburbs, we're going to need a mayor and council with brass b@lls or the development community is all too likely to give us Plainview In The City.

It seems as if most people that have posted here share similar feelings, that being said I still have one fundamental issue with this discussion. There are a lot of people discussing the problems that exist and many people have mentioned things about how they wish this or that would happen and make things better. I have seen a lot of really good suggestions about how private developers, property owners, and business owners can help, but I have not seen very many suggestions about how the Mayor can help
I am not sure why this bothers me so much but when people place blame and don't offer and suggestions about how to remedy the situation it gets under my skin. I am sure this is not a PC way to look at it but it reminds me of a really overweight person constantly complaining about being overweight but not doing anything about it.

I am really enjoying this discourse and I hope it continues... and because I am the one complaining about the lack of suggestions I will offer one...
The city could offer tax breaks to people willing to move into the area.
I don't pretend to be well versed in Tax Law but I would think that if the city was willing to waive property taxes for a period of time (2 years maybe?) possibly that would entice people to move in?

They'll never do it, but I'd love to see them counter-program against Norton Commons: "Now you don't need to drive to the suburbs to enjoy 'real' urban living ... "

Why create division when we all need to work together to develop our community as a whole? Urban and suburban areas like Norton Commons both build on each others strong points and compliment each other. There are very positive lessons and takeaways to be learned from both.

Even in this very early stage of development, Norton Commons (less than 4% complete), captures the old world charm, traditional values and life styles of the past and does so very well. It is a very diverse neighborhood made up of people from all socio-economic backgrounds. There is a real sense of community and caring for each other. People actually spend more time on their front porches just sitting and reading a book or enjoying their favorite beverage visiting with neighbors as they stroll by. Yes you actually know and enjoy your neighbors well beyond the ones who live next to you!

At 9:00 pm on most weeknights you will find people walking the streets on their way to and from Saratoga, Gelato or Karems or just walking to visit with neighbors. We also greet many visitors just checking out the area and enjoying the same things we do about it. Check out Sundown Thursday’s at Karem's, a block party which has already grown to over 300 - 400 people in less than a month. The majority of the crowd is from outside Norton Commons.

But having said that and having recently spent a very horrific week in Oakland CA visiting our college student daughter who lives in an area where "urban rebirth" is being attempted I'd like to point out that it doesn't always produce the desired effect. In fact in Chicago, Philadelphia, New York and Oakland it has proven to be very hurtful to the urban neighborhood and even dangerous to those moving in early on in the “rebirth”.

A word has even been created to define it. Gentrification which Matthew used here... The Wikipedia definition is: "Gentrification, or urban gentrification, is a phenomenon in which low-cost, physically deteriorated neighborhoods undergo physical renovation and an increase in property values, along with an influx of wealthier residents who may displace the prior residents."

So the effect is to displace the very people you purport to help, which unless they are the property owners, they become very angry and resent your presence. In my personal Oakland experience running to and from my car, not talking to anyone on the street (because they are very angry we are there) and listening to gunshots in the night was so diametrically opposed to where I live in Norton Commons that I gave my college student daughter 30 days to GET OUT of the area. By the way our college student daughter was considered low income living with 3 students in a $2,000 a month condo valued at $800,000 in an area surrounded by boarded up buildings and people pushing grocery carts up and down the street loaded with materials to the recycling plant. My god the church was even boarded up!

So while I like everyone else here are all for urban development, but let's be careful how we approach it and considerate of those in the neighborhoods we are attempting to "improve." Having witnessed Gentrification first hand, our city planners have a tough job ahead and a fine line to balance.