Creation Gardens opening new building March of 2011.

I don't use this forum to be harsh on places but I really don't like that a) this new, beautiful building did not happen and b) CG is leaving downtown and going to produce lane and making all retail business go through online channels. Is this still happening? I have to order retail online? Without looking at it first? Am I confused because I don't know what is going on?

Either way, I don't like it at all but whatever.

Hi Adam,

Yes, we will be opening up our online ordering system to retail customers. Our wholesale customers have been using this system for years. You will be able to browse through all of our products online, pay with a credit card, and then pickup at either our warehouse or Ghyslain on Market (721 East Market...right behind our corporate offices). Additional pickup locations coming soon.

The system will be available to retail customers on May 9.

I don't use this forum to be harsh on places but I really don't like that a) this new, beautiful building did not happen and b) CG is leaving downtown and going to produce lane and making all retail business go through online channels. Is this still happening? I have to order retail online? Without looking at it first? Am I confused because I don't know what is going on?

Either way, I don't like it at all but whatever.

Hi Adam,

Yes, we will be opening up our online ordering system to retail customers. Our wholesale customers have been using this system for years. You will be able to browse through all of our products online, pay with a credit card, and then pickup at either our warehouse or Ghyslain on Market (721 East Market...right behind our corporate offices). Additional pickup locations coming soon.

The system will be available to retail customers on May 9.

I forgot to add...you will need a username and password to access the site when it is launched. If you are interested in an account, shoot me an email at ralphb@creationgardens.com. So far we have a list of about 150 locals that want an account!

Thanks!

I think Adam's concern (and that of others) is that with this direction for CG, as opposed to the much-anticipated and now not-going-to-happen new fancy brick and mortar establishment in East Market, there will be no ability to browse items live. For some products, this might be fine, but I think many are apprehensive about purchasing produce and the like sight unseen. This is especially true for the retail customer that would purchase smaller quantities.

The other disppointment was that many hoped this would become a true "anchor" for East Market, and really provide the first significant step to being able to purchase groceries downtown, a thing (along with retail) still significantly lacking in the downtown development plan. Seeing CG make the suburban/industrial flight was painful to see, and although I'm not questioning anyone's motives, from a strictly consumer standpoint, it is disappointing.

If I haven't characterized that accurately, Adam, please correct.

I think Adam's concern (and that of others) is that with this direction for CG, as opposed to the much-anticipated and now not-going-to-happen new fancy brick and mortar establishment in East Market, there will be no ability to browse items live. For some products, this might be fine, but I think many are apprehensive about purchasing produce and the like sight unseen. This is especially true for the retail customer that would purchase smaller quantities.

The other disppointment was that many hoped this would become a true "anchor" for East Market, and really provide the first significant step to being able to purchase groceries downtown, a thing (along with retail) still significantly lacking in the downtown development plan. Seeing CG make the suburban/industrial flight was painful to see, and although I'm not questioning anyone's motives, from a strictly consumer standpoint, it is disappointing.

If I haven't characterized that accurately, Adam, please correct.

Very well said! My wife and I browsed the old location and bought items fairly regularly and were certainly looking forward to the new downtown location and format. We never went looking for something specific but rather browsed to come up with ideas and purchased accordingly. We aren't even planning on registering for the new system because it just doesn't provide what we want, I guess Whole Paycheck will be getting more of our money!

Ralph, will you offer an explanation? This seems to be one of the worst business decisions I have seen in awhile (sorry, no nice way to put it). I think suffice to say that no private consumer will order produce online. Maybe CG will still get chef business but I imagine they will lose all private customers. Maybe east Martket is not the right location, but wonder if it is? I think the amount of housing and traffic in that area with the med center speaks volumes. And if you could create a nicer "locally owned" Whole Foods I think it would be a grand slam and a destination for anyone in a 20 minute radius, especially downtown workers on their way home. But I do think now with TJ's coming to town the whole "indie" grocery scene may be drying up a bit. I just hope Rainbow Blossom can make it. I think Valumarket does fine because it forms a niche that Kroger just doesn't get. Downtown either needs a large permanant, open air farmer's market or a large urban organic grocery....in fact, I think renovating the Whiskey Row into an urban grocery and farmer's market would really be the best use for that area.

Ralph, will you offer an explanation? This seems to be one of the worst business decisions I have seen in awhile (sorry, no nice way to put it). I think suffice to say that no private consumer will order produce online. Maybe CG will still get chef business but I imagine they will lose all private customers. Maybe east Martket is not the right location, but wonder if it is? I think the amount of housing and traffic in that area with the med center speaks volumes. And if you could create a nicer "locally owned" Whole Foods I think it would be a grand slam and a destination for anyone in a 20 minute radius, especially downtown workers on their way home. But I do think now with TJ's coming to town the whole "indie" grocery scene may be drying up a bit. I just hope Rainbow Blossom can make it. I think Valumarket does fine because it forms a niche that Kroger just doesn't get. Downtown either needs a large permanant, open air farmer's market or a large urban organic grocery....in fact, I think renovating the Whiskey Row into an urban grocery and farmer's market would really be the best use for that area.

We completely understand and appreciate everyone's concerns.

Retail sales account for approximately 1% of our business. We always looked at retail as a way to open our warehouse doors to foodies and give back to the community. Due to a variety of reasons (food safety, security, lack of room to grow, running 25 route trucks to 4 different cities, etc), we felt that the absolute best move for our 700+ restaurants and food service customers would be to find an existing warehouse with a larger footprint than the Market Street location would afford. This would allow us to grow and operate much more efficiently. Luckily the warehouse at Campisano Drive came up for sale and it has proven to be a perfect fit for us. Unfortunately for our regular walk-in retail customers, this necessitated the closing the downtown operation.

We have over 3,000 products that we sell to our customers...many of which are non-produce items (like our extensive Gourmet, Ecosteward and Restaurant Staples). Our chefs buy from us site-unseen every day. We realize it is not the same as walking through our warehouse and picking up the pound of Manchego cheese and giving it a good sniff (something I'm guilty of)....but we think our new online system will prove to be a very convenient way for area foodies to browse through and buy a huge array of hard to find products at great prices.

Thanks for all your comments!

Thanks, Ralph. That seems logical. However, I still think you guys are missing the boat. Why can't walk in retail account for 10% of your business instead of 1%? Or maybe even 25%? Who knows, you may have had that chance with a shiny, nice new downtown retail prescence. You can rest assured your business won't get above 1% from private consumers now in my opinion. It is just frustrating no one will take the "gamble" on downtown retail. I am assuming the build out would have been way too high compared with a steal in a declining inner ring industrial area (which incidentally has been the scene of the produce flight from the Haymarket area in the last 50 years) I really have not perhaps ever seen such a vibrant downtown with such a dearth of retail. It is almost unprecedented. Even towns of 5,000 have more retail in their downtown. I think even Jeffersonville has a small family grocery in their downtown. I guess it will have to be one of the chains who takes a gamble on downtown whether it is Kroger or Whole Foods or whoever (and no Kroghetto in Sobro does not coun).

Thanks, Ralph. That seems logical. However, I still think you guys are missing the boat. Why can't walk in retail account for 10% of your business instead of 1%? Or maybe even 25%? Who knows, you may have had that chance with a shiny, nice new downtown retail prescence. You can rest assured your business won't get above 1% from private consumers now in my opinion. It is just frustrating no one will take the "gamble" on downtown retail. ... Even towns of 5,000 have more retail in their downtown. I think even Jeffersonville has a small family grocery in their downtown. I guess it will have to be one of the chains who takes a gamble on downtown whether it is Kroger or Whole Foods or whoever (and no Kroghetto in Sobro does not coun).

Market on Market tried to do some of this and couldn't get the traffic. Theatre Square Marketplace is now very predominantly a restaurant with small retail space for the same reason. Not the same thing as Creation, but both speak to the inability of the downtown to support a retail grocery business. Having owned a small gourmet food store, I can attest that margins are very small and volume of traffic is everything. Produce is even worse due to the perishability of the product. As much as I (truly! ) mourn being able to go to Creation Gardens, and know that I won't use their system to "browse"( I might order edible flowers once a year but that's about it) - you can't support a retail outlet that's only 1% of your business as a stand-alone.
Thanks for the explanation, Ralph!
Deb

I was also part of the 1 percent I suppose being as I have never owned a food service business. My family loved to walk around Creation Gardens just getting ideas , trying new things. I have to admit it took some getting used to not knowing what I was paying for something til I got to the cash register but I was fairly sure it was going to be within reason. Sometimes I felt as if the walk in customers were in the way and a bit of a bother and I really don't think the staff tried to encourage you to come back, but we did anyway. I will not bother setting up an online account, every time we went in to the store we spent between 40- 50 bucks at least. I know that may not seem like much but for only 15 -30 minutes in a market it isnt bad. I will miss it but if they don't want my business will find someone else who does.

All,

I will say that as I much as I complained about them closing the downtown retail store, I did finally place an on-line order with them for New Years. While nowhere near the pleasure of browsing thru the store, you can place an order in the morning for delivery to either Gyslain downtown or Nanz & Krafts the same day,no delivery fee and there did not appear to be a minimum. They called to let me know one item was out of stock, and offered a substitution or to deliver that $3.00 item solo the following day. I was pretty impressed and will use it again for potentially hard to find items.
Deb

Just got an e-mail that as of Jan 13th 2013 you will only be able to pick up retail purchases at the warehouse.

Yes- me too. Hugely disappointing :Retail customers: Please be aware that as of 1/31/13, we will be limiting our order pickup location to just our warehouse at 4301 Chefs Way. Orders will no longer be delivered to Ghyslain on Market and Nanz and Kraft on Breckenridge Lane.

There goes that option- permanently.
Deb

Yes- me too. Hugely disappointing :Retail customers: Please be aware that as of 1/31/13, we will be limiting our order pickup location to just our warehouse at 4301 Chefs Way. Orders will no longer be delivered to Ghyslain on Market and Nanz and Kraft on Breckenridge Lane.

There goes that option- permanently.
Deb

Unfortunately another step backwards.

[Robin Garr]

There goes that option- permanently.

Unfortunately another step backwards.

It's sad to me, too, but then I looked in the mirror and asked myself if I had ever taken advantage of the service. My guess is that it got so little use (in spite of your good efforts, Deb ) that it just didn't make economic sense for them to keep it up.

There goes that option- permanently.

Unfortunately another step backwards.

It's sad to me, too, but then I looked in the mirror and asked myself if I had ever taken advantage of the service. My guess is that it got so little use (in spite of your good efforts, Deb ) that it just didn't make economic sense for them to keep it up.

I can't fault them at all- I know what the margins are and they can't have made much off my $40 order driving all the way to St. Matthews. I was their only retail order that day- right before big entertaining night..