Thoughts on tipping

where were my manners? welcome to our forum sean.

Seconded. It is a pleasure to have you around.

Please disregard our collective exhaustion at the mention of the word "tipping." You make some excellent points, but there was quite a row over the topic just a few months ago (not for the first time) and some of us are still recovering.

Owners would only need to raise prices by 15-20% to give their servers what's considered a "tip for good service" on every single meal. Wouldn't be the end of the world for most customers, especially when paired with the psychological impact of being told they no longer have to worry about tipping. As others have pointed out, it's done this way in parts of europe and everyone gets on just fine there.

This is pretty much the same as adding a mandatory tip, but it is hid in the price of the meal. It still wouldn't fix the inequality in tipping at 1 star vs 4 star restaurants. I can go either way on the issue. Raising food prices, auto adding the tip to the bill or leaving it as is; each option has its +'s and -'s.

I've only got a couple points to make.
1st - Marsha is correct the servers at Frisch's and Vincenzo's are NOT doing the exact same job.
(and the server at Frisch's may make an equal daily wage given the frequency of table turnover at more casual restaurants)

2nd - The careers/jobs that receive tips in the US are consistently on the lowest level of wages - the bell hop, the server, and the cab driver all make much less per hour/year than the doctor, delivery person, and power company employee. Secondly, in most cases they are providing a "convenience service" for the customer. A "convenience service" is one which the customer could easily provide for themselves if so inclined. We don't have to dine out, have someone carry our bags, or take a cab.

I believe we tip because we are lazy and we will gladly pay someone a "little extra" to take care of us.

Also, the mathematics for equating the wages without tips is a little more difficult than you may think.

Servers usually arrive to work an hour early and/or stay an hour late for side work, closing/opening duties, etc. Under the current system servers only earn when the restaurant is busy, so they make 15/20% on each table during the rush and have a few slow hours on either side of the rush.
Now do you pay them hourly what they make during the "rush" or do you pay them an average over the entire day.
Do you cut servers early because now they cost $10/hr and up to keep there waiting for the rush?
Do you justify raising prices 20-25% because you can't predict how busy any given day will be and you need to keep three servers on staff to give great service.

I'm just making the point that you can't just raise prices by the average tip percentage and expect it to work out perfectly.


shawn

Beware -- Poor tipper banned from restaurant:

http://www.wxii12.com/news/22648863/detail.html

They are not doing anything illegal, but it can't help their bottom line having this story in the media.

Oi, why am I even doing this to myself, AGAIN:

Think about it this way...

If you were to ask your server:

What white wine pairs well with my Beef tenderloin?

Should I take the caeser or the fruit and nut salad before my lamb and yoghurt sauce?

We'd like the salad to be presented just after the entree...

I think a tapas-style would work best here...

I have a nut allergy, would pistou cause me issues?

Could you recommend a sake that pairs well with pork mojo?

I figured we'd do a European-style staging.. run with it, my friend...

Your best bordeaux, now, carpaccio to follow, please.

This is the day in the life of a professional server.

I dunno, there truly is a difference in scale/price of the professional vs the acolate. I can prove it to you anyday...

PM me, please!
If you want to see the difference!

Oi, why am I even doing this to myself, AGAIN:

Think about it this way...

If you were to ask your server:

What white wine pairs well with my Beef tenderloin?

Should I take the caeser or the fruit and nut salad before my lamb and yoghurt sauce?

We'd like the salad to be presented just after the entree...

I think a tapas-style would work best here...

I have a nut allergy, would pistou cause me issues?

Could you recommend a sake that pairs well with pork mojo?

I figured we'd do a European-style staging.. run with it, my friend...

Your best bordeaux, now, carpaccio to follow, please.

This is the day in the life of a professional server.

I dunno, there truly is a difference in scale/price of the professional vs the acolate. I can prove it to you anyday...

PM me, please!
If you want to see the difference!

I'm not disagreeing on your main point that there is a difference, but do people actually ask servers these questions? I don't want someone else dictating what I am eating and drinking when I'm dining. We have seen this many times, your (the waiter) favorite doesn't make it my favorite type of thing. Plus, waiters have motives other than what they truly think in the best. They might like the $40 bottle of wine a little better than the $80 bottle, but which makes their tip larger? They might push the 3 day old fish vs. the fresher, because it has to be sold. I'm sure there are others, but these are a few that make me leery of putting my dining experience in the hands of a server.

So many of the things being mentioned on this forum are why I no longer wait tables. I just can't deal with it.

It would be very difficult for restaurants to stay in business if they paid the servers "fair wages". Food and liquor costs are such a huge concern I just don't think it would work.

Additionally, there are many more steps involed with fine dining service than there are casual service. Not that those extra steps don't make sense because they do. Ideally the more you pay for the food, the more steps there are in its presentation and delivery. Likewise with all the peripherals such as wine service, coffee service, martini presentation, etc.

The restaurant biz is just hard all the way around. Somehow, somewhere, some way our society decided that the person delivering your food at a restaurant deserved a little scrill on the side so that's the way it is.

The more thought you put into this the more it will drive you crazy. For years I gave people what they want and when I go out I expect to get what I want in return. All within reason of course. I had such a bad experience at Ramsi's a few months ago I'll never go back. And I'll never say a kind word about that place again.

At the end of the day, you probably shouldn't ever tip less than 15%. And if you have a truly horrible experience just don't return to the establishment. Places that displease the populace that much won't stay in business that long anyway.

Natural selection. Is Darwin in the room?

Chef Dan

Did anyone actually read the article posted by Jeffrey?

*thump, thump, thump...

Why is it, that on a website that is devoted to all things foodie, do we argue about wether to take care of our service staff or not?

Honestly, kinda pathetic, if you ask me.

At the end of the day, you have to sleep with your own actions...

EDIT: Im done on this one. You will never hear another peep again from me on this.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo...

About the actual article:

What are people's opinions about the restaurant?

Why is it, that on a website that is devoted to all things foodie, do we argue about wether to take care of our service staff or not?

And, to answer this one. Because they handle it.

I did read the article, and I can see if from both sides.

Being forced to pay 18% for crappy service is BS. Let's be honest, in this economy, not many people are going to admit to doing a crappy job, because they know that they'll be let go, and they'll be easy to replace.

On the other hand, if the service is excellent, and you refuse to tip, then I don't blame the employees or the manager.

That being said, they should have followed the policy that was posted.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo...

About the actual article:

What are people's opinions about the restaurant?

I'll say the restaurant in in the wrong. The are not following their own rules.

The restaurant menu clearly states that a 15 percent gratuity will be added to parties of six or more.

I noticed on our ticket that they added 18 percent gratuity and there was only two others with me at the time.

Covington said she complained, but paid anyway

She was then informed, on her next visit, she would have to pay 18% tip or leave.

She never said she wouldn't tip, just that 18% was added when it shouldn't have been.

I'd be pissed off too.

Bunch of points in no particular order:

1. If you do a good job at Frisch's, you eventually get the job an Vincenzo's. So, that difference doesnt bother me.

2. I agree with a lot of the original post.

3. I disagree with most of the original posters 2nd post. There is nothing wrong with working on commission, which is effectively what working for tips is. It isnt even remotely close to slavery unless every salesperson is a slave. And good salespeople love the way their job is paid. Same for good servers, I would guess.

I'm really glad you pointed that out, Rob. It irritates me that a lot of the perspectives on the issue neglect to acknowledge that the American sales force is driven by commission, but when "tip" is the label, indignance ensues. I have no issue with tipping (although I used to argue otherwise, I was short sighted [I believe]), it's a unique custom in our consumer practices, so what. We all know what the score is going into it, and we at least have a clear figure of what the server/bartender's commission is. I say let it go, there's no real need for a change here.