Tip snuck into bill

Annemarie and Kyle are exactly right, in that once you start forcing people to tip it no longer becomes a tip but instead a service charge.

True, so if you feel that the service was below the norm for that establishment, you should ask for the manager.......make your complaints/criticisms known......and have the tip adjusted to what you feel is appropraite for the level of service received. All quality minded establishments want to know when anything is not to a guests liking.

BTW, another difference is that service charges are a taxable item.

True, so if you feel that the service was below the norm for that establishment, you should ask for the manager.......make your complaints/criticisms known......and have the tip adjusted to what you feel is appropraite for the level of service received. All quality minded establishments want to know when anything is not to a guests liking.

I agree, and if I ever needed to do so I would handle it like that. Thankfully I haven't had to yet.

BTW, another difference is that service charges are a taxable item.

That's true, and really is one of the primary reasons I'm opposed to automatic gratuity. It feels like trying to back-door a service charge, and I'm opposed to that. I understand why it's done and I sympathize, but I'm still philosophically opposed to it.

Philosophically I'm opposed to pre-calculated tips for all the above noted reasons; however, I've never been a server so I'm asking - don't large parties tend to "under-tip"?

I think 6 is a bit on the small size for a mandated service charge - 8 and up seems about right. It depends upon the level of service required as well I suppose - meaning a casual family restaurant versus a fine dining establishment.

A big part of me thinks restaurants ought to just pay a decent wage and let prices level out where they will.

don't large parties tend to "under-tip"?

Honestly, the answer is "yes", at least in many cases. It goes like this: Someone's paying the bill for a party of 8 or 10, and they think Okay, the bill's $375, and the server waited on us for about 90 minutes - good lord, they don't need $75 for 90 minutes' work! $30 sounds about right - that's almost more than I make for 90 minutes! without ever taking into account how difficult it is to get the timing right, keep everyone's order straight and everyone's drink full - not to mention they couldn't possibly take other tables at the same time.

Hmmm....I smell a column!

Mark,

I'm not bothered by a restaurant adding service charges. Addressing the management when service has not been been to their satisfaction, in any size party, is a responsibility of the customer. My main concerns are stores not advertising this additional fee; labeling it a gratuity; and servers not doing their job because a tip is already in the check.

Whether or not wages would ever equate to European pay scale is another story.

Mark,

I'm not bothered by a restaurant adding service charges. Addressing the management when service has not been been to their satisfaction, in any size party, is a responsibility of the customer. My main concerns are stores not advertising this additional fee; labeling it a gratuity; and servers not doing their job because a tip is already in the check.

Whether or not wages would ever equate to European pay scale is another story.

I understand.

My only problem with an automatic service charge is if the server doesn't mention it at presentation of the bill. Sure it may be printed on the menu, in small print at the bottom (I know ours is). But for a longer dinner service with multiple courses, sometimes the guest hasn't held a copy of that menu for an hour or two when they receive there bill. They may have had a couple drinks, or poor eyesite etc etc. I have seen a double tip been charged (18% mandatory + a 20% that was left as the full tip), I've heard the server maintain that they would let the 20% override the 18%, but when the bank statement came they did 38. I'm what I consider a good tipper, 20-30% on smaller meals (anything below 20), 15-20 on a larger bill, but if I get the sense in anyway that someone is trying the pull the wool over my eyes and double tap my tip, then it goes to 0%. No questions asked, get me the manager, I'll rip up this $50 rather than give it to you (done it).

The other side of the coin is that restaurants pay, and the IRS taxes, based on an expected rate of tipping. While tipping is not legally a requirement, from the server's point of view it's pretty darn close.

Although I disagree with the tone of Alan's post, it has been my experience, based on 15 years in the restaurant business, that those with the strongest opinions about the practice of tipping tend to be the worst tippers.

Annemarie and Kyle are exactly right, in that once you start forcing people to tip it no longer becomes a tip but instead a service charge.

True, so if you feel that the service was below the norm for that establishment, you should ask for the manager.......make your complaints/criticisms known......and have the tip adjusted to what you feel is appropraite for the level of service received. All quality minded establishments want to know when anything is not to a guests liking.

BTW, another difference is that service charges are a taxable item.

Although I disagree with the tone of Alan's post, it has been my experience, based on 15 years in the restaurant business, that those with the strongest opinions about the practice of tipping tend to be the worst tippers.

I'm not sure about Annemarie's tipping history, but my tipping history is higher than most. Now, if the server has not earned it, they don't. I feel passionate about it because it's their job. And, while being a moderately patient person, I only take so much when it pertains to the server's attitude. Everyone has their bad day in the office, but a server should NEVER...EVER...EVER...EVER...take it out on a customer.

So, I feel strong about this issue, because it's important servers recognize not everything is their fault (as a customer to the server). But, some things are recognizable and leave a lasting impressing while tipping for the bill.

Although I disagree with the tone of Alan's post, it has been my experience, based on 15 years in the restaurant business, that those with the strongest opinions about the practice of tipping tend to be the worst tippers.

More broad generalizations and veiled accusations? How many times do we have to say that we're good tippers before people stop indicting us, specifically or otherwise? I have strong opinions about tipping (and many other things for that matter ). But 20-25% on small checks, and 18-20% on bigger ones doesn't lump me into the category of bad tipper. However, I'm fairly certain that I'm not an outlier among this group. I'll grant you that I've met some people who are bad tippers, and they do have strong opinions on the matter. But those of us on here (even those of us not in the 'biz') tend to be a more enlightened crowd that is aware of the plight of the server and will compensate them properly. This isn't the choir to which you should be preaching.

As an aside, associating you with that horribly insulting post that Alan crafted, even if you 'disagree with the tone,' still implicitly supports his bigoted viewpoint.

[quote="Paul Mick]But those of us on here (even those of us not in the 'biz') tend to be a more enlightened crowd that is aware of the plight of the server and will compensate them properly.[/quote]


I do consider myself a good tipper, but would like to be enlightened on the plight of servers.

Average check, tables per hour, tip %, and/or take home pay.

Just a wild guess:


3 tables per hour, 10 hour shift = 30 tables
Average check = $60?
$1800(30 tables @ $60) * 15% = $270

I sure this is way off, but these are the figures that I have in my mind.

A % automatically added to a patron's bill is in fact a service charge. It's the property of the business and usually given to the server(s) working the table(s), but it belongs to the business. It is not a gratuity - a gratuity is only an amount a patron willingly leaves. Sales tax should be applied on top of the service charge. I see so many mistakes around this issue from what's printed on menus to what's programmed on POS & printed on receipts. Restaurants, be careful - this is something the IRS looks for. I invite anyone with questions to get in touch with me.

As an aside, associating you with that horribly insulting post that Alan crafted, even if you 'disagree with the tone,' still implicitly supports his bigoted viewpoint.

Sorry, I'll stand by my agreement with the spirit of Alan's post, even though I disagree with the way he phrased it. What we're talking about here is punishing a low-wage worker for something that may be completely unrelated to the performance of his or her duties. Most people aren't going to ask to see the manager, so the most immediate way they have to give feedback on a poor experience is via the tip. In some cases it may be the server's fault, but I would guess that in most cases it is the kitchen's, the manager's or the owner's fault. If I have such an experience and I think it's more than just a bad night, I just don't go back.

Of course, this discussion has veered from where it started. In the case of automatic gratuity for large parties, I have no problem as long as it is clearly outlined.

I do consider myself a good tipper, but would like to be enlightened on the plight of servers.

Average check, tables per hour, tip %, and/or take home pay.

Just a wild guess:


3 tables per hour, 10 hour shift = 30 tables
Average check = $60?
$1800(30 tables @ $60) * 15% = $270

I sure this is way off, but these are the figures that I have in my mind.

The variables (type of restaurant, location, state of the economy, quality of section, etc.) are endless and make this math next to pointless, but...

I find that whenever people do the math, they paint "the best possible picture" of what a sever makes. In other words, I think your picture is of a busy Saturday night, when the economy is strong, and the crowds are in a giving mood. What about the lonely Tuesday? What about the slow lunch shift? Sure, you work those so you can work the busy Saturdays, but the reality of the situation makes that $270 the exception and not the rule.

Most people aren't going to ask to see the manager, so the most immediate way they have to give feedback on a poor experience is via the tip.

I agree with you, but I daresay most of us on here would ask for the manager. I know I would, and I'm pretty sure hat Annemarie (as outgoing as she is) wouldn't hesitate to ask for a manager. My argument has never been that people aren't jerks. I'm simply saying that those of us arguing against mandatory gratuities on this forum aren't a part of that crowd.