"No talking" at Jazz Factory ....your opinion, ple

My point was that there is a time and place for everything. There are clubs around town where one can make all the noise they care to.

And again, it's not about making noise. Surely you see the difference.

Surely there is a more reasonable solution and a less restrictive request / direction could be made to the audience.

I guess the proprietor of the club may make the call as to how he wishes his audience to behave when in his club. The market is the ultimate arbiter of of whether or not that's a good idea. Personally, I'm all for a quiet room when listening to music.

[Robin Garr]

Surely there is a more reasonable solution and a less restrictive request / direction could be made to the audience.

I guess the proprietor of the club may make the call as to how he wishes his audience to behave when in his club. The market is the ultimate arbiter of of whether or not that's a good idea. Personally, I'm all for a quiet room when listening to music.

Seems to me that this thread has drifted far enough from the original point that folks have lost sight of a key element: Ken asked for silence during the set <i>because it was acoustic</i>. Special case, special consideration. And it <i>is</i> a venue dedicated to serious jazz for serious fanciers.

Ken's a friend of mine, too. He and Dianne and I all worked at the late, glorious Louisville Times together. But I haven't seen a thing in this thread to suggest that he did wrong.

Surely there is a more reasonable solution and a less restrictive request / direction could be made to the audience.

I guess the proprietor of the club may make the call as to how he wishes his audience to behave when in his club. The market is the ultimate arbiter of of whether or not that's a good idea. Personally, I'm all for a quiet room when listening to music.

Seems to me that this thread has drifted far enough from the original point that folks have lost sight of a key element: Ken asked for silence during the set <i>because it was acoustic</i>. Special case, special consideration. And it <i>is</i> a venue dedicated to serious jazz for serious fanciers.

Ken's a friend of mine, too. He and Dianne and I all worked at the late, glorious Louisville Times together. But I haven't seen a thing in this thread to suggest that he did wrong.

I'd agree that that's a reasonable request. But I can't agree then that it's reasonable to serve dinner at the same time. I'd prefer one or the other.

[Robin Garr]

I'd agree that that's a reasonable request. But I can't agree then that it's reasonable to serve dinner at the same time. I'd prefer one or the other.

I understand, and certainly don't think your posts have been unreasonable. I'll be seeing Ken and Dianne sometime soon, and will mention this thread to them if they haven't seen it already. I think the suggestion about some kind of a statement on their Website makes a lot of sense.

Surely there is a more reasonable solution and a less restrictive request / direction could be made to the audience.

I guess the proprietor of the club may make the call as to how he wishes his audience to behave when in his club. The market is the ultimate arbiter of of whether or not that's a good idea. Personally, I'm all for a quiet room when listening to music.

I'm not really certain I understand your response. I don't really believe I said anything to the contrary.

I'm all for a quiet room when listening to certain kinds of music as well. Just to be clear I was less offended by the request for no talking than I was by the suggestion in the thread that the alternatives are "no talking" and "acting like a buffoon."

[Robin Garr]

I was less offended by the request for no talking than I was by the suggestion in the thread that the alternatives are "no talking" and "acting like a buffoon."

Second the motion.

I'd agree that that's a reasonable request. But I can't agree then that it's reasonable to serve dinner at the same time. I'd prefer one or the other.

I understand, and certainly don't think your posts have been unreasonable. I'll be seeing Ken and Dianne sometime soon, and will mention this thread to them if they haven't seen it already. I think the suggestion about some kind of a statement on their Website makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, no, I didn't think your comment was directed at my own, but after all the subsequent comments, I wanted to clarify or add to my earlier one.

But can you do something about my parking ticket?

I'd agree that that's a reasonable request. But I can't agree then that it's reasonable to serve dinner at the same time. I'd prefer one or the other.

I understand, and certainly don't think your posts have been unreasonable. I'll be seeing Ken and Dianne sometime soon, and will mention this thread to them if they haven't seen it already. I think the suggestion about some kind of a statement on their Website makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, no, I didn't think your comment was directed at my own, but after reading all the subsequent messages, I wanted to clarify or add to my earlier one.

And speaking of friends in high places, maybe you could do something about my parking ticket?

[Robin Garr]

And speaking of friends in high places, maybe you could do something about my parking ticket?

No, but if you find a good attorney, you should be able to plea-bargain it down to highway mopery in the second degree.

Seems to me that this thread has drifted far enough from the original point that folks have lost sight of a key element: Ken asked for silence during the set <i>because it was acoustic</i>. Special case, special consideration. And it <i>is</i> a venue dedicated to serious jazz for serious fanciers.

Not to keep a thread going without much purpose to it at this point, but I do want to add that I've heard the "keep the noise down please" talk given before many non-acoustic bands' performances there. I think the bottom line is that Ken really respects the music and the musicians and wants the audience to honor them with their near-completely undivided attention.

An update. I thought since I started this thread it was only fair to Mr Shapero to let him know how I felt. He was so incredibly gracious and kind in his email response! As I said, this is no reflection on him, his policy or the club, it is an oversight on their part, I believe, not to post the policy in the club or on the website. I will definitely go back and I thank Mr Shapero for his vision to offer entertainment in a friendly environment.

Linda,

Thanks for your post. I thought it might be appropriate to respond to the thread, since I am the instigator and originator of the 'no talking' announcement. My background is that I moved to Louisville 8 years ago from San Diego. I have been a professional musician for 30 years now and have toured and continue to tour nationally and internationally. My experience with jazz clubs in many American cities, as well as in Europe and Japan, is that talking is kept to an absolute minimum when it is allowed at all. This was the case at the VIllage Vanguard as well as many other legendary clubs I have both worked and attended. Yes, there was space for the audience to verbally acknolwedge their enthusiasm for the music, but this was separate from conversation.

My experience when I first moved to Louisville was rather unusual in this regard because 95% of my other performances are in a setting where everyone is there specifically to hear the music. In my first couple of performances at the jazz factory i was stunned that there were actually people there who thought of the music as 'sonic wallpaper' and paid little attention to what was going on onstage. I told Ken that the only way I could continue to work at the jazz factory was if we could work together to educate the audiences about appropriate conversational behavior in a 'listening room'.

Ken makes that announement specifically at my request, because I have chosen to perform only in contexts where the music itself is the focus of attention. I don't judge musicians who work in background music settings, nor do I feel that in some contexts, conversation during the music is not only expected but appropriate. That is simply not the case for me. I have discovered that many who come to my shows are relieved that they do not have to experiencce the distraction of people talking at the next table, particularly during a quiet or powerful moment of musical ecstasy.

I am sorry that you chose to leave early and not savor the music that was offered that evening. I agree that, at least for my performances at the jazz factory, that it would be a great idea to let people know who are not coming specifically to see the artist (the vast majority of people who come to my shows know that no talking is simply part of the deal, because I have clearly articulated this in the past) that this is the expectation.

I hope to see you again at a future performance, and encourage you to stay around. You might discover a musical experience that will in and of itself inspire you and your friends to listen with all of your heart.

thanks,

harry pickens

Hang around here, Harry. We can use your way of looking at the world ....

Harry, thanks for sharing your background and perspective on the issue. Just out of curiousity, what has your experience been for dinner service in the other clubs / "listening rooms" you have performed in? I think much of the objection to the no talking instruction stems from the parallel service. After all, dinner is most often a time of conversation. The vast majority of the time, when music is present at dinner, it is merely for 'sonic wallpaper,' as you describe it.