Downtown Bagels

As a fellow bagel lover who has yet to make it to the Bagel Mecca of New York, I've got a question for you veterans: has anyone had the bagels from Bloomington Bagel Company?

I used to get them while in school there, and I really liked them a lot. Then again, I don't really have that magical NY standard to compare to ...

These days I'm a Dooley's girl, but I'd happily switch allegiance if something more delicious came to town. So chop chop, coffee shops!

OK I'm setting up an order with the NYC bagel deli...
(http://www.nycbageldeli.com/bagels.html)
I'm going to try out a half dozen of each of the following:

everything, whole wheat, rasin, onion, garlic, sesame seed & poppey seed.
They won't be cheap as I will have to have them overnighted... they have no preservatives.

These bagels are awesome!
My Dad brings them to me whenever he visits from Chicago.
I will likely be selling them for 1.50 each (.25 more than I currently sell Nancy's bagels for) and even at this price with the shipping I will likely not be making much money, if any!

But come on down to DCE latter in the week to try them out. They are delicious and if you like them we will do them regularly.

All the best,
Matthew

"I used to get them while in school there, and I really liked them a lot. Then again, I don't really have that magical NY standard to compare to ... ".

I'm using Laura's quote to respond to Robin, who already knows we have a friendly disagreement on this point.

If someone were to come to me and say, "I lived in Germany, and the beer there is great, but the beer here at these microbreweries in America is just awful -- it isn't even beer," I'd respond by saying (a) yes it is, and (b) you're committing a fallacy by comparing apples and oranges -- both examples of fruit to be sure, but different types.

I say there is a world of bagels and beer, with numerous and joyful variations within each. But if one doesn't like a particular variation, it does not mean that item ceases to be part of its genre!

It just means we have different tastes.

[Robin Garr]

I'm using Laura's quote to respond to Robin, who already knows we have a friendly disagreement on this point.

Hmm ... as you know, Roger, I tend to come down on the <i>same</i> side as you in discussions like this, and certainly we agree as far as pizza is concerned. And beer, maybe.

My problem, though, is that I don't think the quality-of-bagel issue fits the same paradigm. Frankly, the bagel hasn't built a history of serious, artisanal local variations. All bagels purport to emulate the NY style, but that style remains the standard, and there aren't any generally accepted regional variations. Either it's a chewy, boiled, freshly made bagel still warm from the oven, or it's a second-rate imitation.

What you're saying, it seems to me, is like saying that a light lager with caramel color can fairly be declared a "bock," and it's not a lesser beer, only different.

I could be very wrong on all of this, and I see your point. I can decalre a beer style to be different, and still retain the criteria to determine whether it is different AND well done according to the aim.

Perhaps I need to know more about the history and development of the bagel, and this would help me understand. Do you know the location of a tutorial?

While beer is well known for being available in many styles, I am not sure the same is true for bagels. Bagels are supposed to be a certain way, and to the extent that there have been deviations from this traditional style in order to make them in greater quantities or less expensively, I don't think it is the same thing.

Gads -- do you mean to suggest that all my time spent proving that beer is a perfect metaphor for all of life fails to account for the humble bagel?

I'm being existentially devastated here.

[Robin Garr]

Perhaps I need to know more about the history and development of the bagel, and this would help me understand. Do you know the location of a tutorial?

What Ron said, pretty much. I'll try to dig up something definitive online later today, but first let me get out to Iglou and pick up a replacement DSL modem - we lost high-speed access in Friday's storm, and dial-up makes for iffy Web-searching.

The short story, though, is that the bagel is a German roll adopted by the immigrant Jewish community in New York, and it's so well defined that it hasn't evolved legitimate regional variations like pizza (although of course NYC - and Neapolitan - pizza styles do have their legitimate defenders who argue that American regional styles are a devolution).

I'm with Ron, though: Most non-NYC bagels don't represent cultural evolution but just mass-market efforts to approximate an original without the effort or cost, and that's why I think the mass-market bock analogy is on target.

While there are definite variations in dough, the big difference in real bagels and fake bagels is the boiling. Most bagels (and I am completely ignoring the Sara Lee types) are steamed. Real bagels are boiled. The easy way to tell is by looking at the bottom of the bagel. Steamed bagels usually have "tracks" on the bottom from the diamond-shaped belts in the steamer.

Hat's off to Matthew at DCE for jumping on this. I've been in before and it's a very cool location with a great interior, to say nothing of the coffee and espresso. Selfishly, I just want a good bagel, so I'll be stopping by later this week.
b

Don't jump on me, but I just came from Kroger (midnight grocery shopping, yay), and they have Kroger-brand bagels in the bread section and in the fresh-baked section, and they didn't look completely horrible. I've found since leaving NJ that when I'm really hard up for a bagel, even a frozen Sara Lee, when toasted and slathered with cream cheese, can be.... decent. So maybe the Kroger ones aren't too horrible.

On the other hand, shipped-overnight from NYC sounds pretty good, too...

My first ever foodservice job was at Willy Z's deli out in Dupont Circle. They baked about 15 varieties og bagels from scratch every morning, and they were fantastic. Used to get them hot from the oven, schmear them and let the cream cheese get all melty. They totally spoiled me for bagels ever since then.

For a limited time (we hope we can work out a regular connection) we have bagels from the NYC Bagel Company located in Chicago. We also have onion Bialys. Dad just drove down with 8 dozen fresh bagels for us!

We have onion, poppy seed, sesame seed, cinnamon raisin & plain bagels

Stop in and check them out.

Perhaps I need to know more about the history and development of the bagel, and this would help me understand. Do you know the location of a tutorial?

Here you go, Roger: WAY more that you wanted to know about bagels, including three bagel-making videos!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel

Interestingly, much of what is in there has already been posted on this thread -- yet another example of the depth of foodieness of our posters:

. . . .boiled in water and then baked. The result is a dense, chewy, doughy interior with a browned and sometimes crisp exterior . . . It has become a staple bread product in the United States and Canada, especially in cities with large Jewish populations, such as New York and Montreal . . . it is often thought to have been invented by a Jewish baker as early as 1610 in Kraków, Poland. . . .A related bread product is a bialy[1], which has just a depression rather than a hole, is usually onion or garlic-flavored, and is less crispy on the outside; it is not boiled before being baked . . . Though often made with sugar, malt syrup, or honey, bagels should not be confused with doughnuts.

BTW I was also amazed that Lithuania was singled out as one of the main European bagel-loving countries. That's the home of all my grandparents, yet I thought it was my Jersey roots that were the source of my love of bagels (from the Jewish bakery in Paterson every Sunday after church, along with Jewish rye bread and hard rolls -- I'm drooling all over the keyboard!)

Growing up a really good bagel (NY area) was one that hurt your jaw from chewing, chewing, and chewing. I found Dooley's to be decent....unfortunately Dooley's in New Albany closed.

I was laughing at Robin's comment about NYC water. There has been a long running debate between the Stage Deli and the Carnegie Deli in NYC. They both corn their own beef (amazingly wonderful stuff) and the Stage claims that their's is better because they corn their beef in the city with city water and the people from the Carnegie Deli corn their's across the river in NJ. The people from the Carnegie Deli scoff at this. NYC love to chortle about their great water but I think it's a pretty unsubstantiated boast more than anything else.

The way I figure it is this. The Stage Deli is probably owned by Yankee fans who also pull for the Jets during football season. This makes them cretins. The Carnegie is probably owned by fans of the Mets and the Giants....noble folks to be sure!