Good or "Faux Good"

Ok, this is an interesting topic, but i also find David's argument to be flawed, mainly because many of the great small independent restaurants in our community lack the money to "advertise" and as Clancy pointed out word of mouth can make or break you in this biz.
The CPC is a prime example of this, without the voices of individuals like those on this forum spreading the word about our pizza and beer, we certainly may not have lasted our first year.
Word of Mouth is what gets customers in the door before the new phone books come out each year and what gets the guests in the door before the first review is written.
Also, many of us don't have the time or dedication to prowl through the Louisville metro searching for a great unknown restaurant. If someone told me a restaurant was great, and i went there and was of the opinion that it wasn't so good, then i may not go back (or i may go back and try something different), but if i didn't like the restaurant they recommended it gives me insight into their opinions about food
(an illustration if you will - many of my friends and acquaintances loved Ramsi's and often recommended that i should try it, well i did, several times, several different menu selections, and i'm still not a fan - the result - i don't eat at Ramsi's and i take recommendations from those that love Ramsi's with a grain of salt)

in David's example the main flaw is that the people talking up restaurant X readily admit that they have never eaten at restaurant X - so their opinions regarding restaurant X should be ignored - based on the simple fact that they have never had the food -
additionally, if anyone ever says "i see it advertised everywhere, so it must live up to its reputation" - you must immediately strike them with a large blunt object and direct them to the nearest McD's or Papa J's to satiate their hunger for "truth in advertising"


David also wrote this
"Opinion and tastes are all across the board and we should not influence others by our standards." - if i was not influenced by those around me, i don't know what i would do - i'd certainly never be a fan of craft beer and i may still think that Papa J's is the best pizza in the world - i think it is far more important to be an informed consumer who values the opinions of others, but is not bound by those opinions

"Supporting all of our restaurants will make sure all of them are good and the "faux good" will be a thing of the past." - if this was a plausible theory McD's and Budweiser would no longer exist, besides the obvious point that we can not afford in time or finances to support "all of our restaurants" - there are certainly restaurants that gets overly hyped on this board, in local newspapers, and by the general masses, but we as consumers have the final say on where we spend our hard earned cash - and for the most part i trust the opinions of many members of this forum, and on occasion i am disappointed by a recommendation, but not very often - and in the end i try more local independent restaurants based on the opinions voiced here - than on reviews i read in the papers, or any advertising i am subject to - in fact i would wager that the opinions voiced here on this board cause me to actively dine out more often than i would if everyone on this board kept their opinions to themselves


apologies for the rambling - but i love all of your opinions, even if i may not agree with them

thanks
shawn

and keep talking about our pizza, we love it when people come here and say "this is our first time here, but our friends kept saying we should try it"

- while in NYC for the new year - i ate at Lombardi's based on word of mouth - and their pizza lived up to its reputation - i also dined at Le Halles (Bourdain's home away from home, i guess) and found it on the way to Broadway walking from our hotel, literally stumbling across it- and it was also fantastic, and the corner deli on 31st and lexington ave had great sandwiches - this choice made by pure convenience - the point
we can dine at great restaurants and find them through many different means and each of those means of finding that restaurant is valid, because in the end the choice to spend our money there is our own

...Unfortunately, I'm afraid our forum is guilty of "beefing" up the escolades of some restaurants in our area, and then members feel that the restaurant is actually greater than it possibly is. We have so many great independant restaurants in Louisville, and lately I feel that many are being left out of the mix because individuals only go to restaurants that they have heard about or that is doing the most advertising. Unfortunately I have been swayed by certain comments on the forum regarding recommendations, and been very sadly disappointed. Although I value the opinions of others, I don't think we should be "bandwagon jumpers" regarding any certain restaurant until it has truly paid its dues. We have so many restaurants that are truly good, and not "faux good", but because we forget about them, they then get put on the "back burner" and eventually get cold...

The restaurants that get the most play on this forum are those who employ active forum members or those that active forum members like. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Do you interpret that as "beefing up the" accolades (what you meant, I believe)? If you love a certain restaurant that you feel is on the "back burner", tell us about it. Move it to the front burner.

I read with interest the opinions expressed here, but I do it in the same way I review opinion pieces on the op-ed page - I take into account my knowledge of the person offering the opinion and my personal preferences before deciding to be swayed. I read glowing accounts here of certain vegetarian dishes or veg-friendly restaurants, but because I'm not vegetarian, I am not necessarily swayed to try them.

When do you consider that a restaurant has "truly paid its dues"? I am able to jump on the bandwagon to tout the virtues of a new place if it has been open 1 week, if I enjoy my experience there. There's no need to wait for any dues-paying.

I'll cite an example, though, of a place that meets your 'back burner" criterion: Club Grotto. It is rarely mentioned here (although it used to be a board darling several years ago), no known forum members are affiliated with the place, and I suspect it meets the "dues paid" test. We went there last week and it was very good (in my opinion it is not just "faux good").

it makes me sad when food and the love for it is met with pretense.
everyone is allowed to like what they want to like.
the best part about it is...
theyre ALL right.
imho

As I noted in my second message, it's not necessary to name names. Truly, it's not. The point is not so much the restaurant itself, but the point of view, and the fact that it's a personal point of view, which is what opinions invariably are, even if they're restaurant reviews printed in a newspaper. So, again, MY point, primarily, is that for one's point to resonate, one has to say more than to say something so over-generalized as the original message was, which was really so over-generalized as to not say anything in particular. Sure, it's a valid point, as far as it goes. But since I don't know what reviews or what restaurants the writer had in mind, how would I know if the point of view was valid?

Okay, here.... I used to teach research writing. And it's the point I'd make again and again to students: you cannot make a valid point using such broad generalizations. How can I as a reader assess the validity of your point if you're not offering any concrete examples I can consider and assess? You can do that without naming specific restaurants. And you do that by discussing either the reviews one quibbles with and then quibbling with the specifics of that review by countering with your own experience, or you quibble with the folks who recommend restaurants without ever experiencing them by offering your own experience.

eta: What might be most helpful here is to suggest restaurants one believes have unfairly gotten short shrift and which one considers worthy of accolades, or restaurants which receive no or very little critical acclaim and which deserve it. Name names. Surely that can't be so difficult, can it?

Too many coffee references in this thread....

Well, I've never hyped a place that I haven't eaten at. Those kinds of people are "special."

Coffee is my specialty. Folgers, Maxwell House, Nescafe, etc, all SUCK big time. I'm a coffee geek, but I do drink swill coffee frequently. Those are the times I adulterate it with sugar. Otherwise, black coffee which is how good coffee should be consumed.

I invite anyone reading this to come by Ray's Monkey House for a french press, on me. Just tell the Barista I said it is free for Restaurant Forum folks. Maybe I'll make a separate post, but it'd be nice for ya'll (both coffee geeks and non-coffee geeks) to enjoy some freshly roasted coffees that are truly world class. Free!

Cheers,

-Nimbus

p.s.Offer expires eventually.....so come on down....

I'll cite an example, though, of a place that meets your 'back burner" criterion: Club Grotto. It is rarely mentioned here (although it used to be a board darling several years ago), no known forum members are affiliated with the place, and I suspect it meets the "dues paid" test. We went there last week and it was very good (in my opinion it is not just "faux good").

Have to agree on that point - Club Grotto is sadly overlooked often. Caveat - I've only been there three times, over 4 or 5 years, but each visit was memorable and enjoyable, oh, and the food was good, in my opinion. Am I qualified to say that?

last i heard club grotto is for sale. but still in business.

Interesting. It changed hands a year or so ago, correct? I thought the then-owners' son was the head chef, and he passed away, so the parents sold the business. My apologies if I'm mis-remembering the story. My point is that whoever has it now hasn't had it all that long, right?

Club Grotto is owned by Jim & Juanita McKinney. It was originally started and owned by their son Jim, who was the head chef. After his unfortunate death, the McKinneys took over the day to day operations and continue to do so. They have had several chefs, but have controlled ownership.

Club Grotto is owned by Jim & Juanita McKinney. It was originally started and owned by their son Jim, who was the head chef. After his unfortunate death, the McKinneys took over the day to day operations and continue to do so. They have had several chefs, but have controlled ownership.

Thanks, David. I definitely botched the story, so thanks for clearing that up.