Is 18% Tip Presumptuous?

I am sure that some readers will take serious offense at my post, but here it goes. 20 percent of $400 is $80. That's for one table of 6 people. Some of us work hard all day for that amount. How much do waitpersons actually make at good restaurants? I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever they like, but really, it's just bringing food and drinks across a room. I apologize in advance to all hard working servers, but that is just my opinion.

I remember reading an article about "21" in NYC some time ago. For that particular restaurant, and that article (which surveyed all wait staff, management, et al), it was determined that the average waiter made more money in a year than the average patron!

No point in that, just an interesting factoid (that I have to believe is no longer accurate).

I've got to weigh in on this. I haven't been a food server for over 25 years and there's a reason for that - it's some of the hardest work in the world. It's physically taxing and emotionally draining. The logistics of waiting on more than 3 or 4 or 8 tables at a time, all of them at different points in their meal, making sure meals arrive hot and to the correct person is something like juggling jellyfish and chain saws at the same time. And for some reason some people don't see the necessity of treating a food server like a professional and in some cases like a human. The public can be demeaning and demanding regardless of a food servers skills or actions. I've seen some usually nice, sensible, kind people turn into imperialistic jacka*%$# when they sit down in a restaurant. Through it all a professional food server will grit their teeth and smile because if they don't the table can always stiff them or walk on them.
No sir, it is not an easy job. It can be the job from hell and I thank my lucky stars I no longer have to wait tables and when I dine I tip over 20%.

Mark, please introduced yourself next time you come in to Seviche GC- I am always grateful to be able to put faces to the names on this forum. I serve some nites and manage others- I am the chubby bald man-- hard to miss.

I always find this subject enlightening.
I promise you I will bring this to Anthony's attention- though I'm sure it was researched and thought put into the percentage. We always aim to have our guests leave happy and wanting to return, so if there is ever a question about added gratuity, sevice, food, or anything else please bring it to our attention.

To answer MikeG there is a statement on the bottom of the menu that tells of the service charge. Quite frankly I often forget to add it on. This worked to my detriment Derby night when I received 10% on a 15 top. No one to blame but myself.

To MarkH, yes 20% of $400 is $80. I can understand how you might think that the server pockets all that money, but that is not the case. The $80 also helps support the bussers, bartenders, and food runners that helped in making your evening a pleasent experience. In places that I have worked over the years the percentage of the tip out is 35-50%. Even on the lower side of this equation that means $28 of the tip you left goes to others. The server would end up with $52. Hardly a living wage.
I bring this up not to introduce people to the minutae of restaurant economics, but to give some sort of perspective. Should you think about this when you dine-not ever- that is our job; but should you leave adequate compensation? Yes.

As for the claim that "21" severs make more than their patrons- I find that very hard to believe. I've known quite a few severs from "21" over the years, and while they do exceptionally well (upwards of 100K) I can assure you that the patrons make so much more.

IMO Louisville is blessed with an array of excellent dining establishments that cater to every price range packed with excellent service personnel trying their best to please their clients. Whatever price point you can afford it only seems right to compensate the people that did the hard work for you.

Serving is a difficult and thankless job. I know I could not handle the myriad of bs that goes with being a server. If I give a server at any fine Louisville establishment an 18% tip, they have done something very, very bad.

First off....I'm sorry I started this thread because I want it made clear...I have no issues at all with the service I've ever received at Seviche. I love the restaurant, the food, the whole package. My whole family concurs.

I know that wait staff work hard for their wage. They clearly earn their well deserved gratuities. I'd like to think I tip generously....usually over 20%.

My ONLY issue was that I didn't feel it was warrented that it be taken from my own sphere of control and placed in the restaurants. Basically I still feel that way but if I didn't notice it on the menu.....my fault. I think it's basically valid to raise the question; however, I'm a bit insulted at some of the comments on this thread "bashing" or belittling the very folks that take care of me. Any issue I had was never with them.

Mark, please introduced yourself next time you come in to Seviche GC- I am always grateful to be able to put faces to the names on this forum. I serve some nites and manage others- I am the chubby bald man-- hard to miss.tuity, sevice, food, or anything else please bring it to our attention.

You must be my twin! I'll say hi next time!

I see your point...

Placing a gratuity on a 6- top seems to be a sneaky ploy. Generally, 8- tops or over is the rule.

I'd be willing to bet, that the management team has already had a discussion about this policy and made the best decision they can make.

20%, believe it or not, has become the new 18%

Service has become premium again...

Not to be difficult, but every restaurant I've worked at in the last 10 years adds(ed) gratuity to parties of 6 or more. From Deitrichs to Allo Spiedo, Irish Rover, North End Cafe, Avalon, Primo and Bourbons. I'm really shocked that this is something new to some of you! It's been like this since I've been in the business. I hardly see anything sneaky or "ploy-ish" about this, I've also never worked anywhere where it wasn't explicitly stated on the menu.

Not to be difficult, but every restaurant I've worked at in the last 10 years adds(ed) gratuity to parties of 6 or more. From Deitrichs to Allo Spiedo, Irish Rover, North End Cafe, Avalon, Primo and Bourbons. I'm really shocked that this is something new to some of you! It's been like this since I've been in the business. I hardly see anything sneaky or "ploy-ish" about this, I've also never worked anywhere where it wasn't explicitly stated on the menu.

Just because it is "done" doesn't mean I agree with the practice. Frankly I take pride in tipping well....when I'm charged for the service I don't get any inherent pleasure in "taking care" of my server. Catch my drift?

This is even rare to do as the tip if required is taxable in the state of kentucky so your hitting your customer for more sales tax on a normally not taxable item. To charge a required tip on a party of 6 in my opion very presumtuous.

Even though this is required by law do all restaurants do it? I can't remember from previous times whether taxes were charged on a mandatory tip or not but I think I've would've noticed it if it was.

Not to be difficult, but every restaurant I've worked at in the last 10 years adds(ed) gratuity to parties of 6 or more. From Deitrichs to Allo Spiedo, Irish Rover, North End Cafe, Avalon, Primo and Bourbons. I'm really shocked that this is something new to some of you! It's been like this since I've been in the business. I hardly see anything sneaky or "ploy-ish" about this, I've also never worked anywhere where it wasn't explicitly stated on the menu.

My recollection is certainly different since I don't remember ever been charged a mandatory gratuity for a party of 6 and I've been to several of the restaurant's you mentioned. While I see both sides of the issue I truly believe that if the service is good good tips will come as a result. In special circumstances such as split tickets etc. I can understand adding a mandatory gratuity but under normal circumstances I don't appreciate it nor think it's appropriate. Maybe it's part of the reason that several of the restaurant's you worked at have closed?

parties of six or more.. majority of the time it is the rule.. i agree jeremy j..no argument... sometimes time keeps moving.. and some of us are just left behind

I really believe this thread is ridiculous..... maybe my expectations are too high for people on this forum.

Exactly what is ridiculous? My sentiments?

I think it is ridiculous that your service was fine.. and you were ALMOST offended by the presumptive 18%..which shouldve been 20 % in my opinion. ask any server that has been BURNED.. after giving flawless service. I promise you..it feels MORE than ALMOST offensive when that happens.

and if your joy of rewarding the server was robbed.. i dont think it would make a difference how large the party was..you make it sound like the number is not an issue...be flexible.progress.

This is even rare to do as the tip if required is taxable in the state of kentucky so your hitting your customer for more sales tax on a normally not taxable item. To charge a required tip on a party of 6 in my opion very presumtuous.

Even though this is required by law do all restaurants do it? I can't remember from previous times whether taxes were charged on a mandatory tip or not but I think I've would've noticed it if it was.

Not to be difficult, but every restaurant I've worked at in the last 10 years adds(ed) gratuity to parties of 6 or more. From Deitrichs to Allo Spiedo, Irish Rover, North End Cafe, Avalon, Primo and Bourbons. I'm really shocked that this is something new to some of you! It's been like this since I've been in the business. I hardly see anything sneaky or "ploy-ish" about this, I've also never worked anywhere where it wasn't explicitly stated on the menu.

My recollection is certainly different since I don't remember ever been charged a mandatory gratuity for a party of 6 and I've been to several of the restaurant's you mentioned. While I see both sides of the issue I truly believe that if the service is good good tips will come as a result. In special circumstances such as split tickets etc. I can understand adding a mandatory gratuity but under normal circumstances I don't appreciate it nor think it's appropriate. Maybe it's part of the reason that several of the restaurant's you worked at have closed?

maybe you gave them the delta tango ala double tip.. and didnt even notice the gratuity.. plenty of successful restaurants still add on gratuity to 6 or more.. i dont think it had anything to do with them closing.

Maybe it's part of the reason that several of the restaurant's you worked at have closed?

You mean two of them? Um, no, I can assure you that 2 of them closing had nothing to do with the 6+ rule...by that logic why are the other ones still open and let's add all the others in town (virtually all of the louisville originals) who do it to the list:
L&N
Seviche
Jack Fry's
Uptown Cafe
August Moon
Baxter Station
Meililos (20% on 7 or more)

and that's just who I could find online in the last 10 minutes...make a couple calls and I think you'll realize that this is a pretty standard practice.

I waited tables at a few restaurants through college and it seemed that parties of 8 or more were SUBJECT to the charge. It was usually stated somewhere in the menu. It was up to me to find a manager to get the grat added. However, I would sometimes not ask a manager to add the gratuity if I felt that it it might offend the customer, and I did not want to risk getting less of a tip than the customer intended. Other times I would find a manager ASAP to add the gratuity (Lafayette was a Roulette wheel of tippers).

Its a bad thing to admit, but it was basically a quick judge of character.