Is it too soon?

Aren't teens bored and disenfranchised EVERY night? Isn't that the thing about being a teen?

So I guess we should just expect and except this level of belligerence from those under 20 and just go on. It's like when a car is broken into in my neighborhood and the cops just say "yeah, that's going to happen."

Insane.

[Robin Garr]

Have you been to the new Xcape Theater? It's across from Papa John HQ, sort of back-to-back with the Sam's Club and near SE Christian.

I'm pretty sure the TRO keeps me at least 2 miles from both those places.

BTW, as you cannot get to the mall movie theater from inside the mall, I would hesitate to blame the "wilding" on adding a theater to the outside of the mall . . .

The more I see and hear, the more I believe that "wilding" is a huge over-statement of what went on there.

That said, I'd rather have the police overreact by making all the shops in the region lock up and then calling in a flotilla of buses than I would have them overreact with billy clubs, pepper spray and live ammo.

The more I see and hear, the more I believe that "wilding" is a huge over-statement of what went on there.

That said, I'd rather have the police overreact by making all the shops in the region lock up and then calling in a flotilla of buses than I would have them overreact with billy clubs, pepper spray and live ammo.

I don't believe that "Wilding" if at all and overstatement of what happened. If you look at the videos that were taken with cell phone cameras and being shown on line it looks like that's exactly what happened! When you have a huge crowd of uncontrolled youth running everywhere what else can you call it? I'm sure that everyone who was there peacefully was scared during the event and rightfully so.

I do agree that the police response was probably fairly appropriate for the situation. Hopefully, some solutions will come out of discussions that are being held to prevent incidents like this from happening in the future.

Aren't teens bored and disenfranchised EVERY night? Isn't that the thing about being a teen?

So I guess we should just expect and except this level of belligerence from those under 20 and just go on.

No, but you pin the blame where it lies. If there were, indeed, 2000 kids there ( number now considered to be overinflated), I don't know how many engaged in illegal activities, but I'm not content to blame the group as a whole. The numbers were large and the place, as far as I can tell, was understaffed to handle them.

As for "wilding", the definition is "the activity by a gang of youths of going on a protracted and violent rampage in a public place, attacking people at random". I've not read any evidence of that happening.

Aren't teens bored and disenfranchised EVERY night? Isn't that the thing about being a teen?

So I guess we should just expect and except this level of belligerence from those under 20 and just go on.

No, but you pin the blame where it lies. If there were, indeed, 2000 kids there (a number now considered to be overinflated), I don't know how many engaged in illegal activities, but I'm not content to blame the group as a whole. The numbers were large and the place, as far as I can tell, was understaffed to handle them.

As for "wilding", the definition is "the activity by a gang of youths of going on a protracted and violent rampage in a public place, attacking people at random". I've not read any evidence of that happening.

[Robin Garr]

[If you look at the videos that were taken with cell phone cameras and being shown on line it looks like that's exactly what happened! When you have a huge crowd of uncontrolled youth running everywhere what else can you call it? I'm sure that everyone who was there peacefully was scared during the event and rightfully so.

Could you provide a link or two, Mark? Something posted on YouTube? I've been trying really hard to find something like that but haven't had much luck.

I think there's a reason why 200+ people looked at the original post and didn't reply!

Could you provide a link or two, Mark? Something posted on YouTube? I've been trying really hard to find something like that but haven't had much luck.

Just go to the websites of any of the local news media, they've all got video showing the kids stampeding around and through the mall. Some of the best video shows a herd of them running down the hall in front of the Mexican restaurant with the patrons rapidly getting away from the windows and entrances to stay safe. I'm sure anyone who was a participant was scared during these events.

[Robin Garr]

Just go to the websites of any of the local news media, they've all got video showing the kids stampeding around and through the mall. Some of the best video shows a herd of them running down the hall in front of the Mexican restaurant with the patrons rapidly getting away from the windows and entrances to stay safe. I'm sure anyone who was a participant was scared during these events.

So, "kids running" is "a riot"? (I notice the CJ, quoting St Matthews police, has now scaled the terminology back to "small brawl."

So, "kids running" is "a riot"? (I notice the CJ, quoting St Matthews police, has now scaled the terminology back to "small brawl."

I don't believe I've ever heard any mention about a riot, the term used was a wilding which is different. Not as violent nor as intense as a riot. I believe this definition of wilding from the urban dictionary fits what happened very well: "Wilding : a slang term that refers to the practice of marauding in bands to terroize strangers and to swagger and bully" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wilding

[Robin Garr]

I don't believe I've ever heard any mention about a riot, the term used was a wilding which is different. Not as violent nor as intense as a riot. I believe this definition of wilding from the urban dictionary fits what happened very well: "Wilding : a slang term that refers to the practice of marauding in bands to terroize strangers and to swagger and bully" http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wilding

I haven't heard anybody use the term "wilding" since the Central Park jogger back in the late '80s. That may be an apt analogy, too, since a rush to judgement resulted in prison for a group of black kids who were cleared and set free years later.

"Disturbance" seems to be the media's favorite term for the events at this point, but the "riot" word was definitely widespread Sunday night.

I listened to the 40+ minute police radio recording (yeah, a slow holiday period) and it was pretty clear the "2000" teen involvement was vastly overstated. And now the police seems to be walking that back. While I would not have wanted to be at the mall during the fracas (actually, I never want to be at the mall) the whole thing seems overstated.

[Robin Garr]

WFPL has a very good analysis of police and media over-reaction out this morning:

http://wfpl.org/did-the-events-at-mall- ... ice-media/

Here are some quotes that respond directly to Mark's assertion that no one has been calling it a "riot":

The large-scale law enforcement response was soon coupled with an equally outsized response from the local news media. Local TV reporters breathlessly described a chaotic scene. Some called the incident a “riot,” repeating a term provided by St. Matthews Police. Nearly every media outlet that reported on the incident used a crowd estimate from St. Matthews Police that there were between “1,000 and 2,000” teens involved.

...

The information WFPL confirmed on Monday lends little credence to the initial reports of a “riot.”

Soon after the incident, McDonald, the St. Matthews Police spokesman, said as many as 2,000 young people were at the mall. He reiterated that tally Monday afternoon in an interview with WFPL News.

But just hours later, he told The Courier-Journal that number “was obviously a guess” and backed off his initial estimate, saying the number was likely an overlap of numerous reports from officers at the scene who saw from 25 to 100 teens in groups.

...

Although reports show McDonald initially called the event a “riot,” he recanted Monday, saying that to call the event a riot “in the classical sense” would be unfounded.

Still, the word “riot” in media reports stood untested for two days, as did the supposed scenes of unruly teens and multiple brawls. News broadcasts about the incident led with provocative banners, such as WHAS-11’s “Riots, Fights, Reports of Shots Fired.”

[Robin Garr]

Also, I knocked this off in an emotional moment on Facebook last night. It went kind of sub-viral and got a lot of likes and not much hate, so I'll take the liberty of reposting here ...

I asked if there were any videos of rioting at St. Matthews Mall, and I was given links to WDRB and WLKY coverage. I watched them carefully but saw no rioting.

I did see tons of police cars, and I saw maybe a few dozen kids running, and maybe 100 or more milling around or walking. I saw people eating in a restaurant, and some of them watching the kids run. One running kid fell down. This did not look like 1000-2000 rioters to me.

Tell you what. If I were an African-American teen and if I'd been having fun with my friends at a mall in a mostly white neighborhood, maybe a little loud and rowdy, and suddenly all the cops in the world were telling me to get out, "herding" us to the exits and down the road, I'd be scared as hell. I'd remember everything I had seen on TV about Ferguson and Baltimore and Cleveland and Houston, and I'd run like hell, wishing I had never thought it was a good idea to go to a huge mall in a supposedly integrated "Compassionate city." I'd run like the wind, crying, and wishing Mom was there to take me home.

But rioting? Sorry. I'm still waiting for those films.

I like that you can "miscount" 25 teens into 2000. I hope the city of St. Matthews makes a similar mistake (in reverse) when writing this guy's paycheck...