Hope you like Velveeta

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcne ... ndustry/2/

Looks like the FDA is backing down.

[Robin Garr]

Thanks for posting that, Madeline! I saw it this morning and just got here to do the same.

I just hope the FDA burro-crats learned a lasting lesson from this, and aren't simply being passive-aggressive and quieting down for a month or two before trying to sneak it through again.

They never learn. They just reload.

They never learn. They just reload.

Did someone say "reload".....Count me in.

Wow, I must be reading something different than you all.

First, the original dust up came from somebody's blog, and was re-published by a bunch of websites without much fact checking. The follow up by Forbes did a bit of selective cherry picking of the data. For anybody interested in facts, the original complaint can be found here.

The way I understand the linked complaint, the FDA found widespread Listeria outbreak and E Coli in a cheese factory (yum). Listeria is a bad thing, according to the Wikipedia article about it:

Listeria monocytogenes is the bacterium that causes the infection listeriosis. It is a facultative anaerobic bacterium, capable of surviving in the presence or absence of oxygen. It can grow and reproduce inside the host's cells and is one of the most virulent food-borne pathogens, with 20 to 30 percent of clinical infections resulting in death.[1] Responsible for an estimated 1,600 illnesses and 260 deaths in the United States (U.S.) annually, listeriosis is the third leading cause of death among foodborne bacterial pathogens, with fatality rates exceeding even Salmonella and Clostridium botulinum.

Besides the unreported fact that the Food Safety Modernization Act offers exemptions for small, local producers, the FDA's response to this was straightforward:

"The FDA does not have a new policy banning the use of wooden shelves in cheese-making, nor is there any FSMA requirement in effect that addresses this issue. Moreover, the FDA has not taken any enforcement action based solely on the use of wooden shelves.

In the interest of public health, the FDA’s current regulations state that utensils and other surfaces that contact food must be "adequately cleanable" and properly maintained. Historically, the FDA has expressed concern about whether wood meets this requirement and has noted these concerns in inspectional findings. FDA is always open to evidence that shows that wood can be safely used for specific purposes, such as aging cheese.

The FDA will engage with the artisanal cheese-making community to determine whether certain types of cheeses can safely be made by aging them on wooden shelving."

Of course it's a short hop for the anti-government folks to boil this down to sound bites and make it look like overreach. In my opinion the FDA is doing what it's supposed to do - making sure producers keep our food safe.

[Robin Garr]

Of course it's a short hop for the anti-government folks to boil this down to sound bites and make it look like overreach. In my opinion the FDA is doing what it's supposed to do - making sure producers keep our food safe.

Dang! Reasonable conclusions! Did you miss the Email about picking up your pitchfork and your torch, Steve?

Steve is quoting the FDA walk-back, which was their second announcement on the matter. There are actually two Forbes articles as well. The first is linked above by Madeline. The second is linked in an update to the first near the top. So, I don't think cherry picking is an accurate statement.

I recommend folks read both and make up their own minds.

Listeria can be on anything. It can survive on stainless steel, concrete, and any surface in your facility. Listeria, once in an unclean environment, regardless of the materials in that environment can thrive and spread. Nothing is exempt from listeria, and contamination is the problem not the materials involved.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11563514

I think it is only right as someone with skin in this game to be wary of regulations that effect my business that I'm not consulted about or have any input in. As cheese makers that deal in raw milk and sell directly to the public I have plenty of experience with over reach... not to mention the uneven playing field that exists between us and the giant corporate structure that shares the same retail space.

Is that being one of those "anti-government folks" or could I be considered a concerned citizen?

No pitchforks here, just exercising that free speech boss.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... overs.html

Here is word from those crazy anarchists at Slate.

[Robin Garr]

Is that being one of those "anti-government folks" or could I be considered a concerned citizen?

I'm voting "concerned citizen," based on the high-quality information-to-rant ratio in your post.

Is that being one of those "anti-government folks" or could I be considered a concerned citizen?

I'm voting "concerned citizen," based on the high-quality information-to-rant ratio in your post.

Thanks buddy.

Is that being one of those "anti-government folks" or could I be considered a concerned citizen?

I'm voting "concerned citizen," based on the high-quality information-to-rant ratio in your post.

I'll vote the same way Robin!

Historically, the FDA has expressed concern about whether wood meets this requirement and has noted these concerns in inspectional findings. FDA is always open to evidence that shows that wood can be safely used for specific purposes, such as aging cheese.

The FDA will engage with the artisanal cheese-making community to determine whether certain types of cheeses can safely be made by aging them on wooden shelving."

This part here is absolutely insane. The bolded especially.

There are millenia of proof that it is safe. There are studies that show that wood cutting boards are safer than plastic cutting boards. Do the math.

The FDA will engage with the artisanal cheese-making community to determine whether certain types of cheeses can safely be made by aging them on wooden shelving."

Here is the big rub. Great to say that they will engage with those who are actually doing the work that pays the taxes. Kudos. What will that engagement look like? For one, who are you gonna meet with in this large decentralized community? The largest producers? The small body of guilds? "Experts"? Yeah I don't know either, so great this sounds like lip service.

Better question, what research do you expect that community to bring to the table to rebut your assertions? Can the independent cheese making community present you with thousands of years of craft and proven efficacy like it did with the use of raw milk, or aging times of less than six months? Oh wait you rejected those out of hand... So I guess the community now has to find ways to do giant research projects that have a large enough sample size and are conclusive enough to prove you wrong beyond a shadow of your corporate funded doubt?

The burden of proof is always on the one who makes the claim. Where are the government's studies? Where is their argument that they expect small farms all over the nation to disprove with limited resources? I have yet to see them, and like with other regulations that are not scientifically based I will just have to believe they are in place to support the producers with the largest capital and who partake in the revolving door that exists between the Department of Agriculture and the industry that it regulates.

In our creamery we installed large wire baking racks 5 or so years ago when we put together our aging room. Why? Cause we foresaw regulations about wood aging racks even then. And here we are...

Dude stole my hook!