Another one bites the dust

[Robin Garr]

several up-and-coming blocks south of it, all of which have grown a little more organically.

Yeah, no quibbles with your overview, Jeff. Those "blocks south of it" (or south of the Seelbach, maybe more precisely) have sure been resistant to resurrection, though. I do get a sense that we're seeing some anchoring going on between Chestnut and Broadway - it was way cool and almost like being in a real city to go to Marketplace and then a show at The Palace the other night, and see Fourth lighted up and full of people. Although when LEO Weekly had its offices in that block, they still felt a need to keep the doors locked and buzz people in during business hours.

several up-and-coming blocks south of it, all of which have grown a little more organically.

Although when LEO Weekly had its offices in that block, they still felt a need to keep the doors locked and buzz people in during business hours.

Wellllll....that, honestly, was for other reasons. They did the same thing prior to being located on 4th Street.

[Robin Garr]

for other reasons.

Can you tell more? I always thought it really seemed profoundly un-LEO-like. (PM is okay! )

At this point, Cordish would be stupid to build anything new - they can't even fill what's vacant now.

The Pub space - empty
Red Star/Mozzeria/Quattro space - empty
RiRa space - now empty
Improv space - empty
Never-built health club/"The Tavern" space - empty
Back third of Borders space - empty
CVS space - soon to be empty when CVS moves to the Hilliard Lyons Center/Embassy Suites corner
Electronics Boutique space - empty
2 of 7 food court spaces - empty
Office Depot space - empty

That's got to be what, 30% of the existing 4SL square footage standing empty? 40%?

Sure sounds like new management and an overhaul is needed. Id be curious to know if any of the 4SL tenants are making money. Im guessing most are simply treading water.

Rather dated but others apparently disliked Cordish. http://cordish.blogspot.com http://cordish.blogspot.com
Were they hoping for Ky voting for expanded gambling and have lost interest?

I recently met with the Downtown Development Corp to discuss the south Fourth corridor (I am opening a bar down there) and my understanding is that the Hilton Garden Inn and the Embassy Suites will be open within the next 16-18 months. The construction on the corner of 4th and Chestnut is actually a boutique hotel (apparently along the lines of 21C or Hotel Lincoln in Chicago) which is projected to be open within the same time frame. So all told- 600 new hotel rooms in the next 18 months. A 1,500 seat venue adjacent to the Palace is also planned. That is not to mention the growing and thriving independent places all along 4th street. The trolley hop and new galleries that have opened have been consistently selling out their shows and foot traffic is already high.

The issue is not a dead, hopeless neighborhood, it is shady, watered down, over-corporate concepts with no local support. 4th Street Lie oops- Live (typo ) has always been a mistake. It is the antithesis of what makes Louisville great, and absolutely no way to bring people into a city to visit. Luckily, the slugger museum, 21C, the new stadium-side dining options, milk wood, Nulu and the KY Center are all doing no small part. I look forward to our bar, Meta, and the numerous planned distilleries adding to that list and bringing even more people downtown. 4th Street Live was a mistake plain and simple. Now that locals are less leery about setting up shop downtown, it's bound to disintegrate as it brings nothing remarkable, interesting, or novel to downtown Louisville.

I recently met with the Downtown Development Corp to discuss the south Fourth corridor (I am opening a bar down there) and my understanding is that the Hilton Garden Inn and the Embassy Suites will be open within the next 16-18 months. The construction on the corner of 4th and Chestnut is actually a boutique hotel (apparently along the lines of 21C or Hotel Lincoln in Chicago) which is projected to be open within the same time frame. So all told- 600 new hotel rooms in the next 18 months. A 1,500 seat venue adjacent to the Palace is also planned. That is not to mention the growing and thriving independent places all along 4th street. The trolley hop and new galleries that have opened have been consistently selling out their shows and foot traffic is already high.

The issue is not a dead, hopeless neighborhood, it is shady, watered down, over-corporate concepts with no local support. 4th Street Lie oops- Live (typo ) has always been a mistake. It is the antithesis of what makes Louisville great, and absolutely no way to bring people into a city to visit. Luckily, the slugger museum, 21C, the new stadium-side dining options, milk wood, Nulu and the KY Center are all doing no small part. I look forward to our bar, Meta, and the numerous planned distilleries adding to that list and bringing even more people downtown. 4th Street Live was a mistake plain and simple. Now that locals are less leery about setting up shop downtown, it's bound to disintegrate as it brings nothing remarkable, interesting, or novel to downtown Louisville.

"A 1,500 seat venue adjacent to the Palace " ???? Can you elaborate? Where would that fit?

As for 4th St Live, let's be fair. We needed a restaurant/entertainment cluster downtown to ignite a spark. There is no doubt in my mind that it was a success during the early years. The occupancy was consistant. However, things have changed and there are many more options within the downtown bounderies. I see a few more franchises coming in to fill up space along side TGI Fridays, Hard Rock Cafe, Howl at the Moon, etc. Many out-of-towners don't want to venture far beyond their hotel and prefer familiarity. I say--"That's fine!" They can have that block and we welcome the business and tax revenue.

Live Nation, which owns the Palace, is putting a nightclub/concert space into the beautiful Wright-Taylor building next door to the Public Radio Partnership building and the Palace folks will run it. It will be like Bogart's in Cincinnati, a place for smaller acts. I think 1500 is the ambitious capacity number.

The points about 4th Street Live being a safe bet for those only interested in vanilla are well taken, though I still think it would have been wiser to invest that time, money, and space into local concepts. The attempts at adding local flavor to FSL were too little too late IMHO.

More important is the need to discuss the south Fourth street corridor articulately and realistically. I've heard far too many off the cuff "crime and wig shops" anecdotes. The neighborhood is growing, fast, and it's time we all hop on the trolley.

The points about 4th Street Live being a safe bet for those only interested in vanilla are well taken, though I still think it would have been wiser to invest that time, money, and space into local concepts. The attempts at adding local flavor to FSL were too little too late IMHO.

More important is the need to discuss the south Fourth street corridor articulately and realistically. I've heard far too many off the cuff "crime and wig shops" anecdotes. The neighborhood is growing, fast, and it's time we all hop on the trolley.

Your new place, Meta, sounds quite avant-garde from all I read. What a cool addition to that part of town. People will not recognize those few blocks in another year or so.

I think building giant corporate entertainment destinations is no longer a viable option.

Years ago, before the wealth of smartphones, social media etc, out of towners looked for things that were familiar like chain restaurants, destination touristy restaurants (cheesecake factory, Hard Rock, Planet Hollywood, gordon Biersch) etc. but I think that has changed. Nearly everyone has a wealth of info at their fingertips to find local places to drink, dine and entertain.

People are no longer using the phonebook or "dining guides" in their hotel rooms to guide them, they are using yelp, trip advisor, twitter and facebook.

Our city will be just fine without full occupancy at 4SL.

Yes, there is something to be said about having some recognized places so that out-of-towners feel comfortable with them. On the other hand, Louisville doesn't have a constant influx of large crowds from out of town. Because of this, any place that is going to be successful has to not only be something that out-of-towners want to visit, but also something that the locals want to visit my semi regular basis. With a few minor exceptions, this hasn't happened in 4th Street Live. Other than the just turned 21 (or have a fake ID showing they are 21) group of people, locals tend to shy away from FSL. Local restaurants and venues don't want to locate their because of the extremely expensive rents and that's why they surrounded, but are not part of it. Only national chains or restaurants favored by Cordish who probably get a break on rent can afford to locate there.

Tourist A says "where are the cool places in town and how do I get there." While Tourist B walks out of the Hyatt, Seelbach, Marriot, or the Convention Center, sees 4SL and says "I'm tired and hungry. It looks like we can get some beer, some grub, and some babes here!" I We've all been there at one time or another!

[Robin Garr]

On the other hand, Louisville doesn't have a constant influx of large crowds from out of town.

Mmm ... from the Louisville Convention and Visitors Bureau ...

In 2011, $1.4 Billion in tourist dollars was spent on daytrips and overnight trips to Louisville. And as Louisville’s third largest industry, tourism supported nearly 31,000 jobs in Jefferson County alone. The economic impact is of course significant, but the results are even more important, as they positively affect the quality of life in Louisville itself.
Tourism generates funding for all kinds of economic initiatives, initiatives that directly benefit Louisville’s deep and diverse community. From one of the country’s finest metropolitan park systems, to an outstanding core of arts groups, to families and professionals, to researchers, investors, educators, entrepreneurs, and dreamers alike, Louisville is a city rich with the promise of a life and future where almost anything is possible.
By maintaining its commitment to this critically important industry, Louisville simultaneously enriches and nurtures its infrastructure — which is why, year after year, Louisville ranks as one of the very top cities in the nation for quality of life.
http://www.lcvb.info/bureau-reports/economic-impact

Economic and Community Impacts of Tourism
$1.4 Billion was spent in 2011 by 12.7 million visitors to Louisville. Study by Urban Studies Institute at the University of Louisville - Dec. 2012
http://www.lcvb.info/sites/default/file ... ion_UL.pdf

I visited 4SL once. Drove in, parked in the garage for an event at one of the now defunct clubs. Got seriously hassled and harrassed by patrons outside when returning to my car and just made it back to my car as a pack of teenagers were roving through the garage breaking car windows and stealing whatever they could get their hands on. Told the men manning the garage entrance who just shrugged.

I've been to dozens of rock and roll concerts surrounded by stoned/drunk/hallucinating fans and never felt that threatened. I really don't care who owns what, if there is no security in the area I will never return. Not a fun evening.