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Papa John seems to be coming out for Romney. What do you think?

Dumb move! He's bound to lose business from those who disagree
15
48%
Smart move! Obama isn't popular in Kentucky.
6
19%
Doesn't matter. Hardly anybody cares.
7
23%
Other. (Discuss)
3
10%
 
Total votes : 31
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Joel H

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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Joel H » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Mark R. wrote:The statement is obviously true whether Shatner states it publicly or not.


I am now going to imagine Captain Kirk reading Papa Johns' quarterly earnings statements from now own, thanks.

Mark R. wrote:Unfortunately it's going to hurt much worse for small businesses....However many small businesses are going to be hit much harder because they will be required to provide insurance for employees if they do not presently tried insurance for or else they will be forced to pay a significant TAX!


Businesses under 50 employees are exempt.
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Joel H » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:01 pm

Mark R. wrote:Why are you assuming that the comets will hurt their business?


First Captain Kirk, now comets! Hey man, if those comets turn into meteors which then turn into meteorites that slam into random Papa Johns franchise locations, that could really hurt the business!
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Paul T Carney

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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Paul T Carney » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:11 pm

IMHO, The missing ingredient, if you will, is the assumption, based on a very fixed idea about what corporations are, that profits must be maintained at a certain level at all "costs". It's another indication that maybe, just maybe, corporate structures need to be changed.
Yes, under current circumstances, corporations are beholden to their stakeholders. Maybe we should consider ways for corporations to be good citizens as well (since they're, you know, people and all)
Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
– Terry Pratchett
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Robin Garr

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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Robin Garr » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:14 pm

Paul T Carney wrote:IMHO, The missing ingredient, if you will, is the assumption, based on a very fixed idea about what corporations are, that profits must be maintained at a certain level at all "costs". It's another indication that maybe, just maybe, corporate structures need to be changed.
Yes, under current circumstances, corporations are beholden to their stakeholders. Maybe we should consider ways for corporations to be good citizens as well (since they're, you know, people and all)

Thank you! A response that actually read and assimilated the original post. :mrgreen:
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Joel H

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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Joel H » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:16 pm

Jeez, Robin, way to completely discount what anyone else contributed to the thread!
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Robin Garr » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:20 pm

Joel H wrote:Jeez, Robin, way to completely discount what anyone else contributed to the thread!

Naw, I was just having fun, Joel. No offense meant.

I do think, though, that several posters missed my point about raising prices losing business and thus not necessarily being in the best fiduciary interest of the stockholders. There are times when it is better to eat a small tactical loss in favor of larger strategic gains. Papa doesn't seem to be aware of this, or at least it doesn't fit his needs at this time.

At the old Courier-Journal and Times, for instance, raising subscription rates and newsstand prices always resulted in losing some subscribers, so the Binghams were loath to do it and would suffer a slight, gradual ROI for a time in preference to a sudden, sharp one when they raised the rate.
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Kari L » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:22 pm

I would like to say this is an effort to save the costs that will have to be covered by employees after the insurance companies jack up their rates as much as they can. However, I'm quite sure that employees will probably still be asked to pay an increased premium as well.

In any case, I doubt he'll be the only business to increase prices. It does seem strange to make an announcement about such a small price increase, when usually you just try to get customers to pay small price increases without them noticing. :lol:
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Robin Garr » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:49 pm

Image

I couldn't resist sharing this ... :mrgreen:
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Jackie R.

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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Jackie R. » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:44 pm

Joel H wrote:
Mark R. wrote:The statement is obviously true whether Shatner states it publicly or not.


I am now going to imagine Captain Kirk reading Papa Johns' quarterly earnings statements from now own, thanks.

Mark R. wrote:Unfortunately it's going to hurt much worse for small businesses....However many small businesses are going to be hit much harder because they will be required to provide insurance for employees if they do not presently tried insurance for or else they will be forced to pay a significant TAX!


Businesses under 50 employees are exempt.


In an effort to keep things civil and inoffensive here, I want to be sure that you know that Mark R. posts with the assistance of voice recognition software. I learned a long time ago that members teasing him for typos are probably unaware of this. I don't agree with a lot of his views, but he's a total sweetie.
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Joel H » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:18 pm

I did not know that Mark uses voice recognition software. However, that "total sweetie" recently wrote on the board:

Mark R. wrote:For all we know the profits from one of the local ethnic restaurants could end up in the hands of an extremist group in the Middle East.


which is one of the worst sentiments I've seen on HotBytes, pretty much ever. No pass.
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Jackie R. » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:26 pm

Joel H wrote:I did not know that Mark uses voice recognition software. However, that "total sweetie" recently wrote on the board:

Mark R. wrote:For all we know the profits from one of the local ethnic restaurants could end up in the hands of an extremist group in the Middle East.


which is one of the worst sentiments I've seen on HotBytes, pretty much ever. No pass.


Fair enough, and I agree for most part, as long as there's no ridicule of his typos. And for the sake of clarity: as much as I oppose some of his views, it's notable that you pulled a sentence out of a quote from another thread that might be misconstrued in the current context. You know, the tactic utilized in political commercials that seem to be getting all the buzz these days? I'm hyper sensitive to it lately.
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Joel H » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:40 pm

I'm sorry, there's no context for me in which such xenophobia is acceptable, ever.
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Re: Papa John says he'll pass along Obamacare costs to consu

by Jackie R. » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:49 pm

Joel H wrote:I'm sorry, there's no context for me in which such xenophobia is acceptable, ever.


Xenophobia is fear of the unfamiliar and I don't assume Mark is Xenophobic. He's probably afraid of terrorism, but the rest is up to him for debate. From a very liberal standpoint here, I'm just trying to maintain a level field free of pre-judging with the knowledge that we are here for a discussion and some of us are genuine friends.
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Lonnie Turner

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Now, hold on thar, po'dner!

by Lonnie Turner » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:16 pm

Robin Garr wrote:At the old Courier-Journal and Times, for instance, raising subscription rates and newsstand prices always resulted in losing some subscribers, so the Binghams were loath to do it and would suffer a slight, gradual ROI for a time in preference to a sudden, sharp one when they raised the rate.


This is an apples / oranges comparison to Papa John's. I can relate because I, too, draw on my experience as a cog in a few machines over the years. But...

Difference 1:
The Binghams (much admired and rightly so) had private ownership of the newspaper(s), among other businesses, and could afford to accept lower profit if it suited them. If they earned less it affected no one but the Binghams and certainly put them at no risk of living under a highway overpass Personally I think they deserved everything they got for their fine stewardship and keen sense of community responsibility, but less profit did not make a material difference in their experience of life.

Papa John's is publicly traded. They'd be irresponsible to accept lower earnings. Almost everyone who is already retired as well as workers with their retirement hopes in pensions or 401k / 403b plans have much or most money in mutual funds with a mix of hundreds, maybe even thousands, of companies like Papa Johns. If performance lags in comparison to other stocks, the mutual fund managers drop the lower performers in favor of higher performers based, ideally, not on short term blips but on long term success in making more good decisions than bad ones and information on their current business plan. Papa Johns can afford to make a misstep once in a while but absolutely has to get it right (economically) more often than the competition or their value drops and so does the value of the portfolios of lots of average folks who want something to rely on more than Social Security. There aren't that many fat cats out there who own big chunks of Papa Johns as an individual stock. Papa Johns has to deliver results that impress the professionals who, in turn, strive to increase the value of the mix of shares in the stock funds they manage so Grandma and Grandpa can keep the house above freezing in the winter. That's not about Papa Johns alone, but about them and thousands of other companies collectively that people are hoping to tide them through old age. Really.

Difference 2:
The Binghams could also afford more latitude in how aggressively they pursued profit because they were in a business ecology with no real competition for leadership in this vicinity for the top newspaper. The C-J & Times had no legal environment to worry about apart from local, state and federal.

Papa Johns is a multinational now and has to attend to the legal structure and tax laws in two or three dozen countries. In some of those countries they may be the big contender, I admit I don't know about the environment abroad, but locally, nationally and internationally Papa Johns is scrambling for market share with Pizza Hut, Dominos, Little Caesar's, Papa Murphy's & likely chains we've never heard of abroad.

Difference 3:
Schnatter is no fool. He knows the ingredients, better or not, for ALL pizzas are going up thanks to the worst drought since the Eisenhower years. The prepared food industry has been desperately trying to hold down costs to the consumer for years. The damage to grain harvests will affect the cost of dough, cheese from milk made from feeding cows, umm, grain and most meat used on pizzas. So he's betting this is a tipping point where all the big dogs are going to have to up the price or cut into their ability to grow and survive. I suspect he's right, but only time will tell.
But more important than that - did he say the price would go up because of those economic realities? No. He said it would go up because of the Affordable Care Act as though that was the only factor involved.
Now, in fairness I do not think he's saying something that is not true, but he's not saying the whole truth and as such I can fairly accuse him of deliberately misleading the gullible.

Robin, back to you as I was not there back in the Bingham time.
Is this actually a third difference, or did the Binghams engage in the kind of sleazy sleight of hand Schnatter is practicing?
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Re: Now, hold on thar, po'dner!

by Robin Garr » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:12 pm

Lonnie Turner wrote:Robin, back to you as I was not there back in the Bingham time.
Is this actually a third difference, or did the Binghams engage in the kind of sleazy sleight of hand Schnatter is practicing?

Thoughtful post, Lonnie. I can't quibble with a lot of it. And of course, this is where apples and oranges truly come to bear, because part of the Binghams' business model involved operating a news media empire that included both news (which I can testify they sought to keep as bias-free as possible. I could tell stories ... :shock: ) and opinion, wherein they took joy from the publisher's right and responsibility to use their publications as a bully pulpit to preach what they thought was right.

Where it gets quirky, though, is in this whole matter of corporate structure and fiduciary responsibility. Although the firm was closely held by family members, it was corporate. And the issue that forced Barry Sr. eventually to decide to sell the papers went directly to that: Senior traditionally demanded only a minimal ROI - 2 percent or thereabouts - because he viewed the family business as a public trust, and the family became wealthy enough to live in a Glenview mansion and patronize the arts and charitable communities well on that. But Several younger family members demanded that he increase ROI significantly, a move that would have required a diminution in quality that Barry Jr. would not abide. This set up the family fight that eventually led to the sale: Junior wanted to continue operating on a minimal ROI in order to stay in the top 10 US newspapers. His sister Sallie, in particular, wanted more money and doubted Junior's ability to run a quality shop anyway. (Sibling rivalry, anyone?)

Point is, yes, this is a very different corporate structure than Papa John's. But it still came down to the Milton Friedman/Randian understanding of corporate-profits first that has dominated the scene since the Reagan era, a very short time in macro-economics, and one that's starting to look frayed around the edges since the Great Recession (Bush Depression).
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