We are Eating Less Meat. Why?

[Robin Garr]

Brian, any of your "industry professional" friends are welcome to consult me directly if they feel this is an issue.

As for debating you, I follow Mark Twain's dictum about avoiding getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Look, sir: I ejected you from this forum not because you asked tough questions - you don't, really - but because you seem to lack the little internal censor that most people have that whispers in your ear when it would be wise to keep your mouth shut. You bullied and hurt people, and that's why I threw you out. I agreed to let you back with the clear understanding that you wouldn't do it again. That resolution lasted about a week.

I don't know which part of "you're on a short rope" is not clear to you, but I suspect that your notion that lots of industry professionals are on your side and think I'm picking on you is delusional. Again, if any of those industry professionals would like to step forward and instruct me, I'd be glad to hear it from them directly. But to be honest with you, sir, I don't believe you.

It's not important enough to lie about.

There's not a consistent record of bullying or hurt. There's a record of having a differing opinion, that is always squelched.

As for the personal attacks, I'll accept those without rebuke, it makes you look good.

I'm tired of going back and forth with you so I won't do it anymore. If you want to censor non offending opinions to make your board look better then that's fine with me. I'll accept that.

It may have passed your notice that the thread you said was not interesting to people took off right AFTER I removed the snotty intro.

There were 6 posts after my post by 8:13am this morning, so what you are saying just is not true. I understand you are the moderator but there was not a problem here to moderate. Good and respectful discussion generated by me, not you, of a dying thread.

Chain v locals has been debated here for 7 yrs, that's the truth, not an exaggeration (what I said that got deleted).

If it makes you feel good to over moderate for no reason then that's fine too.

Good point Mark, I just watched a documentary called Forks over Knives. It was very informative and had a ton of studies back up the info. Why I bring it up here is the info pointed directly to the meat and dairy based diets being a huge factor in causing heart disease, stroke, and various forms of cancer. Great tidbit I took away from it, the amount of money it will take to perform all of the heart bypass surgeries this year in the US will be 10 times the US defense budget.

I wanted to bring this post to the forefront and recommend that everyone watch it. It's available on Netflix streaming and is very eye opening.

[Robin Garr]

Good point Mark, I just watched a documentary called Forks over Knives. It was very informative and had a ton of studies back up the info. Why I bring it up here is the info pointed directly to the meat and dairy based diets being a huge factor in causing heart disease, stroke, and various forms of cancer. Great tidbit I took away from it, the amount of money it will take to perform all of the heart bypass surgeries this year in the US will be 10 times the US defense budget.

I wanted to bring this post to the forefront and recommend that everyone watch it. It's available on Netflix streaming and is very eye opening.

I agree. Forks vs Knives is a thought-provoking movie, no matter where you stand on the issus it raises. Thanks, Kari.

Good point Mark, I just watched a documentary called Forks over Knives. It was very informative and had a ton of studies back up the info. Why I bring it up here is the info pointed directly to the meat and dairy based diets being a huge factor in causing heart disease, stroke, and various forms of cancer. Great tidbit I took away from it, the amount of money it will take to perform all of the heart bypass surgeries this year in the US will be 10 times the US defense budget.

I wanted to bring this post to the forefront and recommend that everyone watch it. It's available on Netflix streaming and is very eye opening.

I agree. Forks vs Knives is a thought-provoking movie, no matter where you stand on the issus it raises. Thanks, Kari.

The correlations drawn between the rise of farm subsidies and the rise of heart and other chronic disease is eye opening. The biggest revelation the USDA is the advocate of big agribusiness made me feel stupid. I thought they were looking out for me.

you can eat pretty crappy but if you exercise you can mitigate much of the cardiovascular risk

Nope. If from no other source, read Dr. Stamford's column each Thursday in the C-J. At least the C-J still has some use. Bill Clinton, just one public example, was a big jogger but still ate a diet of too much bad food high in saturated fat and other poisons. Exercise didn't save him from clogged arteries and heart surgery that has left him prematurely weakened. It would be more accurate to say that consistently poor diet choices ruin your efforts at the gym.

Regarding films, "Food, Inc" is also a good, terrifying film. We are not eating the meat our ancestors ate thousands of years ago, chasing game down in the wild that as free animals ate and lived naturally.

To Mr. Pierce's comment, no, the USDA is not consistently looking out for us. Even when there are sensible regulations, when it suits those in power they simply reduce enforcement. So unfettered capitalism acts the way children do in the playground when there is no adult supervision. These days anybody who likes medium well or less cooked is playing Russian roulette. It would be hard to say if eating meat (i.e., from a creature that had a central nervous system as opposed to plants or fungus) in the First World today is more unhealthy than the best we've experienced so far. I'd love to hear from someone knowledgable in food history. Presumably we had an uptick in safety following the reforms in the Progressive Era a century ago. How much worse off are we today than, say, 1920?

Yes, but Meat tastes good and Everybody got to die of Something

It may have passed your notice that the thread you said was not interesting to people took off right AFTER I removed the snotty intro.

There were 6 posts after my post by 8:13am this morning, so what you are saying just is not true. I understand you are the moderator but there was not a problem here to moderate. Good and respectful discussion generated by me, not you, of a dying thread.

You misread or were mislead. I'm entirely sick of you, Brian. I read your antagonistic post before it was edited and know too much of you to think you were nice enough to rewrite it. So thanks to Robin, the man who's job is always the one that's really on the line here. Not a single person posted a response here until the comment was amended.

you can eat pretty crappy but if you exercise you can mitigate much of the cardiovascular risk

Nope. If from no other source, read Dr. Stamford's column each Thursday in the C-J. At least the C-J still has some use. Bill Clinton, just one public example, was a big jogger but still ate a diet of too much bad food high in saturated fat and other poisons. Exercise didn't save him from clogged arteries and heart surgery that has left him prematurely weakened. It would be more accurate to say that consistently poor diet choices ruin your efforts at the gym.

Regarding films, "Food, Inc" is also a good, terrifying film. We are not eating the meat our ancestors ate thousands of years ago, chasing game down in the wild that as free animals ate and lived naturally.

To Mr. Pierce's comment, no, the USDA is not consistently looking out for us. Even when there are sensible regulations, when it suits those in power they simply reduce enforcement. So unfettered capitalism acts the way children do in the playground when there is no adult supervision. These days anybody who likes medium well or less cooked is playing Russian roulette. It would be hard to say if eating meat (i.e., from a creature that had a central nervous system as opposed to plants or fungus) in the First World today is more unhealthy than the best we've experienced so far. I'd love to hear from someone knowledgable in food history. Presumably we had an uptick in safety following the reforms in the Progressive Era a century ago. How much worse off are we today than, say, 1920?

One anecdotal case, ie Bill Clinton isn't scientific evidence of anything. I can show dozens of folks who eat "bad" diets and live into their 90s will no ill effects. Is diet a component? Of course it is and it's important - it's just that genetics and smoking seemingly carry more weight in terms of relative risk.

Consider that the death rate from heart disease and stroke has dropped by 28% over the last decade. People are living longer than ever and they certainly over all aren't eating better - but smoking has been curbed.

I guess the sky is falling if you look hard enough.

One anecdotal case, ie Bill Clinton isn't scientific evidence of anything. I can show dozens of folks who eat "bad" diets and live into their 90s will no ill effects. Is diet a component? Of course it is and it's important - it's just that genetics and smoking seemingly carry more weight in terms of relative risk.

Consider that the death rate from heart disease and stroke has dropped by 28% over the last decade. People are living longer than ever and they certainly over all aren't eating better - but smoking has been curbed.

I guess the sky is falling if you look hard enough.

I quit smoking, cold turkey, almost two years ago. I exercise and do a lot of cardio, but still feel the negative effects breathing wise.

I quit smoking, cold turkey, almost two years ago.

Good for you!

I'm sorry but you're wrong. There were 6 posts overnight after my 10:39 post. That's fact. None of which even mentioned my censored text.

I love you too.

It may have passed your notice that the thread you said was not interesting to people took off right AFTER I removed the snotty intro.

There were 6 posts after my post by 8:13am this morning, so what you are saying just is not true. I understand you are the moderator but there was not a problem here to moderate. Good and respectful discussion generated by me, not you, of a dying thread.

You misread or were mislead. I'm entirely sick of you, Brian. I read your antagonistic post before it was edited and know too much of you to think you were nice enough to rewrite it. So thanks to Robin, the man who's job is always the one that's really on the line here. Not a single person posted a response here until the comment was amended.

Great example Lonnie. A vegan diet has transformed Clinton's health.

you can eat pretty crappy but if you exercise you can mitigate much of the cardiovascular risk

Nope. If from no other source, read Dr. Stamford's column each Thursday in the C-J. At least the C-J still has some use. Bill Clinton, just one public example, was a big jogger but still ate a diet of too much bad food high in saturated fat and other poisons. Exercise didn't save him from clogged arteries and heart surgery that has left him prematurely weakened. It would be more accurate to say that consistently poor diet choices ruin your efforts at the gym.

Regarding films, "Food, Inc" is also a good, terrifying film. We are not eating the meat our ancestors ate thousands of years ago, chasing game down in the wild that as free animals ate and lived naturally.

To Mr. Pierce's comment, no, the USDA is not consistently looking out for us. Even when there are sensible regulations, when it suits those in power they simply reduce enforcement. So unfettered capitalism acts the way children do in the playground when there is no adult supervision. These days anybody who likes medium well or less cooked is playing Russian roulette. It would be hard to say if eating meat (i.e., from a creature that had a central nervous system as opposed to plants or fungus) in the First World today is more unhealthy than the best we've experienced so far. I'd love to hear from someone knowledgable in food history. Presumably we had an uptick in safety following the reforms in the Progressive Era a century ago. How much worse off are we today than, say, 1920?

obesity is projected to overtake smoking as the number one health risk in america within the next decade. you know what happens when all of these people quit smoking? they start eating!