when restaurants refuse substitutions

My issue is when restaurants upsale a substitution by asking you "What side would you like with that?" when the menu says, "Sandwiches come with homemade chips or cole slaw." If those are my options (at the standard charge) then the server should ask, "chips or cole slaw." And if I want to pick something else, then I'll do that.

Had that happen recently at the BBC downtown. Ended up paying $1.99 for a serving of broccoli. I was going to have the broccoli regardless, but I thought it was disingenuous for the server to ask "what side would you like with that?"

I really like how the Blind Pig offers a no up-charge salad substitution. That's total class to me. More places need a reasonable substitution for the standard "it's been deep fried" option. BBC deserves credit too, as they do offer slaw.

Ate at a chain recently on the road. The healthy sandwiches came with broccoli, the non-healthy ones came with fries. There was an upcharge to sub broccoli for the fries with an unhealthy sandwich. Doesn't really make sense beyond the "because they can" level.

Years ago Blue Dog Bakery refused to substitute the bread on a sandwich. I head a physical reason for asking - I was wearing braces at the time that had recently been tightened. I literally could not chew the bread that came with the one vegetarian offering. I explained my situation to the server before ordering. He said they would only serve the sandwich with the tough chewy bread and no substitutions were allowed.

We'd waited forever to get a table. But since I couldn't eat anything there we had to leave and go elsewhere. I've never been back. I had my braces taken off 7 years ago, btw, so I've got a loooong memory.

I leave onions or tomatoes off my gyros all the time with no problem. My problem is if they want to add something ie American Cheese!!!!!!. I will not substitute onion rings for fries on value meals, because the onion rings cost a lot more than the fries. I will, however substitute chips for fries. I will happily give a kid a kid's shake with their kid's meal instead of a soda and soft serve.

As to the lady who ordered the goat cheese and red pepper relish burger and wanted to leave off the goat cheese. Why on earth would she order it in the first place if she didn't like goat cheese??? Just doesn't make any sense to me, I would have left it off though if I had been the chef.

Most times it is easy to please the customer, just remember, Never ask for American cheese on a gyros at A.J.'s.

There are really two different types of restaurants, one would be something like a diner where you don't necessarily go because the food is all that great, but because it's convenient and they'll make you what you want. The other is a restaurant that is a dining destination where patrons visit because of the food/atmosphere the chefs/owners are producing. When you make requests at a restaurant of this caliber, where your alteration is based purely on presumed flavor preferences and not dietary restrictions or allergies, then I believe the restaurant has the right to protect the integrity of the food they are producing by politely declining the alteration.

As for people with severe dietary restrictions and allergies it is their responsibility to be informed about their restaurant choices as well as inform restaurants of their needs prior to their arrival so that the restaurant can accommodate.

It's a two way street, people help restaurants and keep them in the loop and they will happily help you if they can or in some cases let you know that they can't help you, so that you don't waste your time going there.

Referring to part of what Dan said cuts to the real nuts and bolts of the issue. ANYONE who has been on the line on a weekend trying to push out 250 plus covers at dinner will sh%$ a brick when a special request comes in. If you haven't lived it you got no idea. People think someone is in the back just standing around waiting to do a special order just for them. If you are cooking in a good restaurant you're usually in the weeds from about 7PM on. That's the real world. There is just no time for picky eaters.

Another way to explain this would be to compare a good line cook to a someone working on an auto assembly line. Repetition, consistency and speed are the keys to success in both lines of work.
You want and need your movements to feel effortless and automatic. You don't need (or want) anything that might disrupt the natural flow of things. It slows you down and gums up the works. At least that's the way I felt when I was working a busy line.

On a restaurant line, let's say for example, the saute guy has 5 of the 10 dishes on the menu to prepare. Each one requires using a couple of separate pans to cook proteins and sauce separately from the sides. And you only have 5 of six burners to use because one has your rolling boil water going at all times. This guy is getting his ass handed to him, but is keeping up well because of the natural flow of repetition and consistency and is in the zone, All it takes to disrupt the flow of service and put them in the weeds is for someone to start picking apart or omitting things off normal menu items. It disrupts the natural flow.
It's difficult and it takes a lot of thought and effort to not grab for something that goes into a dish you've made thousands of times the exact same way, just because someone doesn't want or like it in theirs.

It might not seem like a big deal to you as the patron but look at it this way.....

Would you really like the guy at the factory putting lug nuts on the car you just bought, to forget to tighten them up because just one of the other 200 cars coming down the line that day before yours was another trim model requiring a whole different set up and he lost his flow?

here's a restaurant that isn't accommodating towards a customers request...
Harvest. owner ivor wouldn't budge. i just sat there and my dining companion and i were like, we'll never go back. i wasn't the recipient, but it didn't matter. what an attitude he had.

Just curious if you're referring to Heather's comment after you and she ate there soon after they opened that they wouldn't serve her a 1/2 order of the fried chicken? (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14915&p=122495&hilit=harvest#p122478)

If so, I'm not really sure I'd consider that a substitution request, and honestly, I can't imagine many restaurants serving 1/2 portions of their entrees unless 1/2 portions are noted on the menu.

I'd base my opinion on whether or not an establishment/consumer is simply being snooty or if it is a topic of food allergies. NOW...if a person is THAT allergic to a particular item then they should not run the risk of exposing themselves to it in the first place. PERIOD. Whether or not they ask for it without their dish in the item in the first place...common sense. As for people not allowing substitutions and it not being an issue of allergies, *shrug*. I don't know. Perhaps it depends on the ingredient....but if it were me...there are some things ok to be left on the side and not, but guess it depends solely on the dish. I'm no chef. At all. But, I make a mean French Toast!

I almost always preface such a request by saying, I no longer take responsibility for how the dish tastes, since that is the way i concieved it and believe it will be best. I also warn onion, garlic, alllergic persons, that if it
is a life or death situation, then they honestly should avoid ordering at a resturarant as cross contamination of those items will eventully get them.

here's a restaurant that isn't accommodating towards a customers request...
Harvest. owner ivor wouldn't budge. i just sat there and my dining companion and i were like, we'll never go back. i wasn't the recipient, but it didn't matter. what an attitude he had.

So, as I see it, you would throw a new restaurant and the owner under the bus, rather than deal with the real issues?? Great job annemarie! Keep up that good work!!

Years ago Blue Dog Bakery refused to substitute the bread on a sandwich. I head a physical reason for asking - I was wearing braces at the time that had recently been tightened. I literally could not chew the bread that came with the one vegetarian offering. I explained my situation to the server before ordering. He said they would only serve the sandwich with the tough chewy bread and no substitutions were allowed. I've never been back. I had my braces taken off 7 years ago, btw, so I've got a loooong memory.

Yeah, THAT is the kind of specificity we should focus on and I apologize for failing to make it explicit earlier. I should have asked for names of places that refused reasonable customer requests and the details so all Forumites can judge for themselves and plan their dining $ accordingly. What is a big deal to one person may seem small potatoes to others and we can patronize establishments as we see fit. Man, that is a shame and though I'd had good experience at Blue Dog, if such a thing happened it does not make me want to go back. La Rosita and Harvest were mentioned earlier. We can decide on the details given for Harvest so far, none have been provided on La Rosita so as far as our household, La Rosita is OK.

It's all in the details, otherwise it's just character assassination.

So I'll give you one of my true experiences. This one is from Blind Pig on the evening of Thursday, May 13, 2010. My wife had the sausage platter (she deemed it really good) and I had the bison burger. I tried to get it with raw instead of grilled onions and the waiter said that might not be possible. I noted the obvious: onions come raw. He went back to check and said the chef ‘couldn’t’ do it. I said no onions, then, as in 53 years I've never had cooked onions that tasted very good, let alone as much like sheer ambrosia as raw onions. It would have been way better with raw onions, but what do I know, I'm just a customer. Or was. We've never been back and don't expect to be. See, here's the deal and Forumites can judge for themselves. Yes, there are some high end establishments that can reasonably expect patrons to take on faith they are doing a sort of culinary artistry that can't be messed with by the fact you are dropping two weeks wages. But you know going in that this is like a theater performance where they don't do requests. It's not about you, the customer. They do what they do and the prices are set to keep out the vulgarians; we don't expect such fanatical behavior at a place where the riff-raff can afford to go. I expect even my dull awareness can perceive that raw onions are a reasonable option on a burger. Did I ask to talk to the manager? No, I did not. Should I have? You judge - I thought I expressed my preference enough and just wanted to leave. To stay and justify my position as a customer (imagine a world where THAT is a proper construction for a sentence) was out of the question. I spent my career in manufacturing where the customer is the be all and end all. Full stop. Customers did not spend their time educating us in how to please them. They went elsewhere since there are so MANY options, as did my wife and I.

In a metro with as many restaurants as we have, I am way more in the mode to whittle the list down to ones that focus more on the customer coming in than the prima donnas inside. I'm betting we've all been to plenty of classy places that can get off their pedistals to work with a paying customer on a reasonable request. The others can more quickly become "whatever happened to" if us customers dish to each other. I figure that's a win-win: they don't want "our kind" and we can free up tables for them until they grow up or go out of business.

Diners of the world unite! We have nothing to lose but restaurants run by people who do not want us around anyway!

I will say that we are regulars at a local upscale place and they have made it abundantly clear that not only can we substitute - we can just tell them what we are in the mood for and they will accommodate and literally cook outside the menu. Now I've never substituted or ordered outside the bounds of the menu for the sheer fact that I want to let the chef do his thing and I'm rarely disappointed with this approach. I will add that the servers usually ask up front if we have any food allergies or issues.

here's a restaurant that isn't accommodating towards a customers request...
Harvest. owner ivor wouldn't budge. i just sat there and my dining companion and i were like, we'll never go back. i wasn't the recipient, but it didn't matter. what an attitude he had.

So, as I see it, you would throw a new restaurant and the owner under the bus, rather than deal with the real issues?? Great job annemarie! Keep up that good work!!

Hi,
Forgive me, but I'm not picking up on the 'real issues' reference. It may be the request to change the order size substantially but it's not in the quoted portion above.
If it is in regards to owner's decision to adhere to the portion size, I fail to see how if the report by Annemarie & Heather is accurate that this would "throw a new restaurant and the owner under the bus". If it is a factual representation of events then one and all on the Forum can decide for themselves the significance, if any, that this has regards how they decide to allocate their dining dollars. For example, in my case I'd probably take the rest home for a meal tomorrow. Not a big deal for me. Others dislike leftovers or, even if amenable, may not be in a position to keep leftovers cold enough to save for another meal. It's all according to what is important to the customer. So if the report from Annemarie is accurate then it is useful to the both public and the restaurant for the information about portion modification options to be well known to avoid future incidents. How fortunate we are to have such things as LouisvilleHotBytes to disseminate experiences so the free market can work better for the customer!

And if anyone knows of an establishment that has refused to leave out an ingredient on request, I wish you'd post the name so I can cross them off the list of places we'd consider. Even if I didn't ask for something to be left out I still wouldn't want to patronize a place that refuses this to a customer

LaRosita.

Not true. Family ate there last night. DD (vegan) ask that the sour cream and cheese be omitted from her dish and they accommodated her request, no questions or comments from the server.

[Robin Garr]

So, as I see it, you would throw a new restaurant and the owner under the bus, rather than deal with the real issues?? Great job annemarie! Keep up that good work!!

It's not just restaurant critics that get recognized and given special treatment, you know.

I tried to get it with raw instead of grilled onions and the waiter said that might not be possible. I noted the obvious: onions come raw. He went back to check and said the chef ‘couldn’t’ do it. !

Don't want to stand up for either side here, but as a kid worked for a place who only used onions as grilled. We got new produce orders on Friday mornings for the weekend. Fairly often on Thursdays the onions had all been sliced and had an initial grilling (for quick finishing), and there just were no raw onions left.

No idea if this is what happened, but a manager could have told you, while the waiter would just rely the flat "no" from the kitchen!