medium-rare burgers

We don't need to help gov't take away our freedoms! I don't mean to sound harsh but I wish the government would keep their noses out of things in our everyday lives. We could pay the additional costs out of the money we'd save by having a much smaller government!

Do you mean eliminating the FDA? Or just the funds devoted to preventing E. coli in ground beef? Because the percentage of the national budget devoted to this agency is too miniscule to create "small government" by its elimination.

The way that ground beef is mass-produced and distributed presents a very real vulnerability to the E. coli hazard. Especially when combined with the handling methods of many restaurants. Although some places purchase ground beef from trusted providers, and others even grind their own, most don't.

I love a rare-cooked burger, but if it's denied to me in a restaurant I assume they are part of the mass-supply chain and can't guarantee their product. But if my dad, whose age has compromised his immune system and whose memory forgets the danger, orders a rare burger, it could kill him. Elderly people and children are inherently vulnerable to this.

I agree with your endorsement of everyday freedoms, but I am comfortable with the restraint on this one, given the overall picture.

Meh, I need to drop a bunch of weight anyway. I'll take my chances and get my burger medium rare.

In addition to a lot of weight loss, e.Coli can also result in kidney failure. I'm guessing that kidney dialysis is not your choice for fun things to do three times a week.

Really, a medium well burger is this much of an issue?

Went to 3rd avenue cafe, they will cook a burger to your liking.

I am really troubled by comments that the government should just stay out of our lives. Things like speed limits, seatbelt laws, food safety regulations, air traffic controllers, building codes, workplace safety are very good things.

I really don't want to roll the dice with my life or health everytime I eat at a restaurant, ride on an elevator, or sit in my office.

There are places where the government doesn't regulate anything. One of these places is India where buildings collapse because builder are allowed to mix too much sand into the cement. No thanks.

The relatives are more interested in following the advice of the attorney who advises suing the deep-pockets chain for all they're worth to assuage their pain and suffering.

Yes Jay, this is exactly what I advise my clients all of the time.

These types of inaccurate and stereotypical comments really bother me in light of some of the families I have represented where a loved one was killed as the result of negligence. I guess I should have told them to just suck it up. Why should the person or corporation who caused their wife's death be held accountable? Right?

The relatives are more interested in following the advice of the attorney who advises suing the deep-pockets chain for all they're worth to assuage their pain and suffering.

Yes Jay, this is exactly what I advise my clients all of the time.

These types of inaccurate and stereotypical comments really bother me in light of some of the families I have represented where a loved one was killed as the result of negligence. I guess I should have told them to just suck it up. Why should the person or corporation who caused their wife's death be held accountable? Right?

How long have you been practicing, Ron? I would have thought by now that your skin would have been a little thicker. My wife collects "lawyer jokes" which she shares with me. And I don't think the arguement is about "the darnblastid guvmint mindin' its own bizness". I was placing my remarks in the personal accountability column. The restaurant has advised me that eating undercooked food may be injurious to my health. I acknowledge your warning and choose to have my burger rare. If I become sick then I knew the risk and I accepted the risk . Have we gotten so far away from that concept that no one even recognizes it anymore? Have we become a society that believes that nothing could possibly be my fault and lawyers are our answer to everything? There is always someone else to blame. Jiminy christmas, bring me a rare burger!

Sonja, if you read my post you'll see that I agree with inspections and regulations up the supply chain to ensure that the meat reaching customers is free from bacteria and other harmful organisms. What I disagree with is in controlling how the product is cooked. I also stated that I feel irradiation would be a good thing to pursue to further ensure the killing of harmful bacteria prior to cooking.

I realize there are certain things the government needs to regulate but let's not get carried away and have them dictate our everyday lives. Things that we can't directly control (building codes, speed of other vehicles, etc.) need to be regulated. Things that we can control (seat belts, motorcycle helmets, etc.) need to be left up to us.

We returned from a 9 day trip to Montreal and Quebec City about a week ago. We were told by servers that medium well is required by law for ground beef. Steak is not included.

We returned from a 9 day trip to Montreal and Quebec City about a week ago. We were told by servers that medium well is required by law for ground beef. Steak is not included.

Believe that is true for all of Canada . . . we just got back from New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and PEI, and - while we mainly ate lobster, scallops, and mussels - we found we could not order ground beef any way other than well done. What's funny is that in one restaurant I did get a "lamb-burger" done medium rare! The chef there said the law states only beef!

I would like to quote Bruce Willis's character in "Fast Food Nation" Yep, there's shit in the meat, but it will be OK if you just cook it"

As a chef, I've toured where my ground beef is processed and it was a very nice and clean facility.
But You Never Know What Happens To That Meat Before It Gets There!!!

I didn't see any primal cuts hanging from the rafters. All I saw were Pre-packaged Top Rounds, Sirloins, Chuck and PSMOS and such from the usual suspects(Excell,IPC,etc....) Knowing that there are really only a few plants around the country that actually butcher and process meat from the whole cow, It does make you wonder how many hands that ground beef was touched by before it became that burger on your plate. Medium or better is the way to go here guys unless you are grinding your own or know who is butchering your meat.

The relatives are more interested in following the advice of the attorney who advises suing the deep-pockets chain for all they're worth to assuage their pain and suffering.

Yes Jay, this is exactly what I advise my clients all of the time.

These types of inaccurate and stereotypical comments really bother me in light of some of the families I have represented where a loved one was killed as the result of negligence. I guess I should have told them to just suck it up. Why should the person or corporation who caused their wife's death be held accountable? Right?

The comment was intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Obviously, there are cases of negligence that warrant prosecution. I don't consider a diner who has received fair warning of the potential dangers of undercooked ground beef, yet demands, and is sickened by, a rare burger to have a claim of negligence against the restaurant.

And, to the point of stereotypes, you have to admit there are those in the profession who do nothing but promote it (witness the ads: "The Heavy Hitter", "he'll make 'em pay", and "The Tiger").

The truth is our systems deal with e colli everyday. I don't recall any big out breaks of it until some guy gave it a name.

Now every time somebody has a loose stool and a fever it's e-colli.

Anytime I use ground meat I always eat a plug of it raw. That's how you tell it's good or not. Always have.

Bristol burger..well outside, rare inside... it's greatness.
I say eat what you want, if it makes you ill, for god sakes don't eat it.

To answer a previous question, I spent 5 years working for Jefferson County and my wife is a lawyer.

Having said that, most of the laws and regulations the government puts in place are not to keep you from hurting yourself. They are to keep OTHER people from hurting you, often in ways you can't or won't see coming. This not only helps you, but helps all of the other things I mentioned before.

They also protect restaurant owners by providing a level of comfort to restaurant patrons. You shouldn't have to worry if the food you are about to eat might kill you.

The regulations are there for your benefit and you can complain all you want, but you'd miss them if they were gone. We take things like fresh water and clean, safe food for granted in this country because government regulations have helped ensure they are a day to day part of our lives.

We're spoiled to the point of being rotten.

Rare burgers are a distinct risk since the bacteria can be ground throughout the meat.
The quality of the supplier doesn't really have anything to do with the risk because you can no more easily see E-Coli bacteria than a flu bug.
The best thing a restaurant can do is have the customer sign a waiver relieving the restaurant of any responsibility related to illness caused by undercooked hamburger.