Welcome to the Louisville Restaurants Forum, a civil place for the intelligent discussion of the local restaurant scene and just about any other topic related to food and drink in and around Louisville.
no avatar
User

David R. Pierce

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1732

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by David R. Pierce » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:21 am

John Hagan wrote:
Stephen D wrote:It's the difference between riding a roller coaster at Holiday World and sitting down on 'The Beast' at King's Island.
Certainly worth the price of admission, unless you hate roller coasters!


Yep, the old wooden coaster at Holiday World has a certain sway to the cars as they glide along, winding their way through the old shade trees. You can listen to the clickity clack sounds the steel wheels make as you and your sweety are gently squeezed closer to each other on the curves. While standing in a modest line full of happy families milling about under the dappled light of towering oak trees, you can contemplate the difference between this and Kings Island. Nothing like waiting in a long,hot,smelly line full of obnoxious teenage punks while listing to outrageous loud music blaring from distorted speakers as you shuffle through ankle deep candy wrappers and sticky soda cups,all for a 20 second whiplash inducing "thrill" ride on a metal contraption with no soul. To each is own.

Pure Poetry Brother.
Cheers,
David R. Pierce
The Original BBC Brewmaster
Bluegrass Brewing Co.
St. Matthews branch
Craft Brewing Louisville continuously since 1992
no avatar
User

RonnieD

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1931

Joined

Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:09 pm

Location

The rolling acres of Henry County

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by RonnieD » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:47 am

uh, guys, the Beast is perhaps the single greatest wooden roller coaster on the planet. No "metal contraption" there. Perhaps the analogy would flourish if we substitute the "Vortex" for the "Beast" instead...
Ronnie Dingman
Chef Consultant
The Farm
La Center, KY
no avatar
User

John Hagan

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

1416

Joined

Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:38 pm

Location

SPENCER CO. Lake Wazzapamani

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by John Hagan » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:17 am

D'oh! :oops:
The tall one wants white toast, dry, with nothin' on it.
And the short one wants four whole fried chickens, and a Coke.
no avatar
User

JustinHammond

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

3358

Joined

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 pm

Location

Lyndon, KY 40222

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by JustinHammond » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:55 am

According to Arthur Levine, The Beast is not even in the top ten.

http://themeparks.about.com/od/rollerco ... asters.htm

Costergrotto.com has it a #7, with Voyage at Holiday World #1.

The Beast is great if you enjoy getting the hell beat out of you.


1 Voyage Holiday World
Santa Claus, United States 2006

2 El Toro Six Flags Great Adventure
Jackson, United States 2006

3 Phoenix Knoebels
Elysburg, United States 1985

4 Boulder Dash Lake Compounce
Bristol, United States 2000

5 Thunderhead Dollywood
Pigeon Forge, United States 2004

6 Ravine Flyer II Waldameer Park
Erie, United States 2008

7 Beast Kings Island
Kings Mill, United States 1979

8 Hades Mt. Olympus Theme Park
Wisconsin Dells, United States 2005

9 Raven Holiday World
Santa Claus, United States 1995

10 Lightning Racer Hersheypark
Hershey, United States 2000


Enough about coasters, lets have a cocktail!
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
no avatar
User

Steve P

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

4848

Joined

Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by Steve P » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:15 am

I like this concept but think it would be much more successful had they used locally produced citric and malic acid. I also think the cocktail would have more appeal had the strawberry's used been organic...:roll: :wink:
Stevie P...The Daddio of the Patio
no avatar
User

Stephen D

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

2110

Joined

Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:41 am

Location

Lyndon, Ky

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by Stephen D » Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:47 pm

Hehe, you guys are having fun bustin' my head. Analogy killers! :lol:

Steve = Funny, yet again. :lol:

Carla = yes, a video of a developmental process, like thiers were. The end cocktail is finished and waiting for filming.

Look closer, friends, have you ever had a cocktail with sorrel in it? One that morphs from one flavor into another? Sure, they chose the old fashioned to go into the ice egg, but that won't be the drink at the end of the day. They're just testing the technique with a standard.

I'm guessing when they do the past, they'll pull out Jerry Thomas and reproduce the classics, to the letter. Present, they'll be working with St. Germain, mezcals, rums and Japanese Ice balls. Future, you'll see these kind of things.

They have structured the concept so that they can.

Now, back up a second and think about flavor. Distilling a fruit juice does what to the fruit juice? The sugars and acids go away. Think about Absolute Lemon (they actually begin with raw product, no additives-) sweet? Sour? Neither. Just raw, lemon flavor in a neutral grain alcohol. Take away the yeast and grain. Raw lemon flavor. Sexy.

You can't tell me that this doesn't affect the end product. It does, in a huge way. The only novelty here is in your mind because you haven't thought it through. The process leads to an exceptional result.

Otherwise, why dump hundreds of grands on something like this? Ya know, Grantz Achatz was nominated by his fellows to judge the selection of the American team for the Bocuse D'Or. The fella has more awards than he can put on the wall. Do you seriously think he buys into novelty?

I have some experience with the modern approach. I've kinda led two programs already. The marketablility of this style is incredibly strong. I've personally proven it to be worth tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, over a single year. And I can quantify this stat, easilly. I'm not going to do it in this public forum- it's a trade secret. I've already had one of my techniques misappropriated this year (not here,) I'm not going for my money-maker.

But I'll give you the sister- people try these drinks, with 'thier novelties' and find them highly entertaining, intensively creative and sensorally superior to thier counterparts. They always come back and they bring thier friends and tell thier relatives. I take pride in mixing up cocktail lists, I'll do something classical, like a rusty horseshoe, do something culinary, like a puree drink, do something tiki-ish, like a sling variation, yet the modern, molecular drinks are the ones that I can hear the table laughing from across the room (aka. Sonic Margarita.)

At the end of the day, I like to see them smile and hear them laugh.

I have a new cocktail program I am trying to find a home for- been working at it in secret for a year now. You are going to love this!
no avatar
User

JustinHammond

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

3358

Joined

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 pm

Location

Lyndon, KY 40222

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by JustinHammond » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:23 pm

Stephen D wrote: Hehe, you guys are having fun bustin' my head. Analogy killers! :lol:


Look closer, friends, have you ever had a cocktail with sorrel in it? One that morphs from one flavor into another? Sure, they chose the old fashioned to go into the ice egg, but that won't be the drink at the end of the day. They're just testing the technique with a standard.


You can't tell me that this doesn't affect the end product. It does, in a huge way. The only novelty here is in your mind because you haven't thought it through. The process leads to an exceptional result.



Not busting your head, just trying to dig a little deeper. I'm see the flavor changes in the distilled fruit juices, but still not getting the market for the product. The more I think about it I'm betting the "clear cocktail" would cost $20+. The distillation machine has to be outrageous, plus the labor to make the "ice cubes" would add up to one expensive drink. I'm still trying to figure out the distillation of juices, not much info out there.
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
no avatar
User

Stephen D

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

2110

Joined

Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:41 am

Location

Lyndon, Ky

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by Stephen D » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:13 pm

Distilling equipment is suprisingly cheap. A home model costs around $200. A 5 gallon copper alembic, for spirits, around $500, although they do have smaller 1 gallon alembics for about $200. You can make your own with a trip to the chemistry supply store, or if in a pinch, can make one with a large pot, some reynolds wrap, ice and an inverted lid or right-side up wok.

You juice your fruit, press it through a chinois, add a little water and distill it, much like making stock.

It is worked as you are doing the rest of the day's prep. There's not much time involoved, barely more then the amount of time it takes to juice and civ the fruit.

The labor cost is minimal, as well, especially if you have a juicer and don't have to strain the fruit.
no avatar
User

JustinHammond

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

3358

Joined

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 pm

Location

Lyndon, KY 40222

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by JustinHammond » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:17 am

Stephen D wrote:Distilling equipment is suprisingly cheap. A home model costs around $200. A 5 gallon copper alembic, for spirits, around $500, although they do have smaller 1 gallon alembics for about $200. You can make your own with a trip to the chemistry supply store, or if in a pinch, can make one with a large pot, some reynolds wrap, ice and an inverted lid or right-side up wok.

You juice your fruit, press it through a chinois, add a little water and distill it, much like making stock.

It is worked as you are doing the rest of the day's prep. There's not much time involoved, barely more then the amount of time it takes to juice and civ the fruit.

The labor cost is minimal, as well, especially if you have a juicer and don't have to strain the fruit.


The machine they were using sure looked expensive. Looks like I'll be making some "vodka" in a bucket still very soon. I'm still not getting distilling fruit juice, reducing vs distilling.
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
no avatar
User

Stephen D

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

2110

Joined

Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:41 am

Location

Lyndon, Ky

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by Stephen D » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:59 am

The fancy toy can cost between $725 and $10k. Thiers looks to be the 10k model. I know, it looks to be a large sum, but when one looks at the startup cost of a restaurant, it is not a large number for a machine that appears to figure quite heavilly into thier concept. Keep in mind, that the kitchen next door (Alinea) is stocked full of such machines and they seem to be doing just fine at thier price point.

You have me confused now. Are you attempting to use this technique at home? Or saying you wouldn't go to a restaurant at the high-end price point, like a Jeff Ruby's? Or that the return on your dollar is not great enough? Or that the restaurant will fail, even though it is the most talked about cocktail concept in the world right now?

For all the gadgetry, there are low-tech methods for applying the priciples. Somethings, like the professional grade vaporizer I am saving up for, require the machine. Perhaps they find this particular machine to be superior to the old way of doing it. I dunno, I don't have one.

My enthusiasm with regards to this concept is that molecular mixology, as a whole, will be served. They will do the RnD, I will go out and buy the book and will adapt what I like to the cocktail I serve you.

At a reasonable cost.
no avatar
User

Ethan Ray

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

705

Joined

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:30 pm

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by Ethan Ray » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:09 am

What they're using:

(not the same brand or as fancy.... but you get the idea.)

Rotaval (Vacuum Rotary Evaporator) - $13,505.00
Ethan Ray

I put vegetables in your desserts, white chocolate with your fish and other nonsense stuff that you think shouldn't make sense, but coax the nonsense into something that makes complete sense in your mouth. Just open your mind, mouth and eat.
no avatar
User

JustinHammond

{ RANK }

Foodie

Posts

3358

Joined

Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:26 pm

Location

Lyndon, KY 40222

Re: The Aviary Cocktail Kitchen

by JustinHammond » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:27 am

Stephen D wrote: Thiers looks to be the 10k model. I know, it looks to be a large sum, but when one looks at the startup cost of a restaurant, it is not a large number for a machine that appears to figure quite heavilly into thier concept.

You have me confused now. Are you attempting to use this technique at home? Or saying you wouldn't go to a restaurant at the high-end price point, like a Jeff Ruby's? Or that the return on your dollar is not great enough? Or that the restaurant will fail, even though it is the most talked about cocktail concept in the world right now?



$13,000 seems like a ton of money for distilling fruit juices is all I'm saying. I’m not willing to pay more for clear juice and I’m curious as to the effect on the flavor. I’m sure it intensifies the fruit flavor, but it seems a simple reduction would do the same.

Is the concept cool, hell yes!
Would I like to try one, hell yes!
However, it all comes down to the cost. Spreading out $13,000 to the cocktail prices has to make a big difference in price point. How much, I have no idea, but I'm betting these suckers will be high dollar. I'm not paying $20 for a drink, period. I don't care if it is made of holy water and unicorn blood. Innovation and creativity can only go as far as the consumer carries it. When Stevie D gets his nuclear powered flavor creator operational, I'll be the first in line.

Sounds like some taco talk to me.
"The idea is to eat well and not die from it-for the simple reason that that would be the end of your eating." - Jim Harrison

https://www.facebook.com/Louisville-Eat ... 129849554/
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AmazonBot 2, Claudebot and 5 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign