The People -- and the Shame -- Behind Our Food

[Robin Garr]

I also find it offensive, Becky.

It is a perfect example of a stereotypical generalization.

Word.

Becky, it's a perfect example of elementary science. Not your strong suit I suspect. Try reading up on human behavioral and biological adaptation to environment. Perhaps even make yourself acquainted with a fellow named Charles Darwin.

The notion that Mexicans are not extraordinarily familiar with, and well adapted to a hot environment in comparison with their American neighbors closer to the poles is, well, pretty goofy.

[Robin Garr]

Unless you have actually experienced this firsthand, i do not think anyone can downgrade the severity of what it is. The living conditions are horrific, the working conditions worse. The toll it takes on a family cannot be described. Withdrawing from school early to get to another state when the season comes, returning to school late when the season is over....... then actually add the work that is done by the people that go. It is back-breaking..... literally. You have quotas, you have limited breaks, there seems to be no end in sight. You go to bed at sundown your body wrought with exhaustion, only to repeat the process the next day. Personally, it is close to slave-like conditions.

Becky, I know you speak from experience, having grown up in the Valley.

I can't testify from having done the work (thank goodness), but in another day job a few years ago, I did work up close and personal with farm worker and anti-poverty grassroots organizations all along the border, from Brownsville to McAllen to Laredo and El Paso, Las Cruces and Tucson and San Diego. I'll support your observations: It's not a life that most of us in middle-class America can even begin to fathom.

[Robin Garr]

Becky, it's a perfect example of elementary science. Not your strong suit I suspect. Try reading up on human behavioral and biological adaptation to environment. Perhaps even make yourself acquainted with a fellow named Charles Darwin.

The notion that Mexicans are not extraordinarily familiar with, and well adapted to a hot environment in comparison with their American neighbors closer to the poles is, well, pretty goofy.

Dan, I'll leave it to Becky to tell you about her heritage if she cares to, but I'll just step in here and gently remind you that "not your strong suit" and "pretty goofy" do not represent the kind of discourse I intend to have in this forum. You're welcome to debate, but please cool anything that could even be interpreted as a personal attack. Now.

Thanks and Gracias.

I have no idea why you are offended by my suggestion that Mexicans know how to deal with the heat. To suggest otherwise would be idiotic.

I'm offended because it is a generalization. It yells: STEREOTYPE.

Mexicans generally know how to deal with heat.

some might, some might not. i think i would know firsthand.

Please, let's NOT get into what is idiotic.

Ever been to Mexico? Experienced the tremendous heat there? In a country where air-conditioning is not widespread?

Hmmmm.....i only lived there for years when i was younger. Experienced the heat? I believe so, i lived in Mexico for years, then moved to a border-town and lived there for 20 years........

so, yeah, i know the concept of the heat.

air-conditioning not widespread........... i KNOW all about the living conditions in Mexico.

Yes. Let's please not get into idiotic.

Apologies, I just have a hard time dealing with anything that flies in the face of logic and science. When I was in the Army we always had the argument between the Hispanics and the up North guys about the uniform of the day. 65 degrees and the hispanics wanted to wear field jackets and the Alaskan guys wanted to wear short sleeves. Sorry, but anyone who thinks Mexicans/Namibians/Sri Lankans/Malaysians are not better at dealing with the heat than Russians/Swedes/Alaskans/Canadians is simply not being logical. Get it? People close to the equator adapt to heat. People close to poles adapt to cold. It's not rocket science.

Sorry Becky, it doesn't yell steroetype. It yells common sense, logic and science.

FWIW been to Mexico many times. Love it there. Don't have problems with Mexicans.

Becky, it's a perfect example of elementary science. Not your strong suit I suspect. Try reading up on human behavioral and biological adaptation to environment. Perhaps even make yourself acquainted with a fellow named Charles Darwin.

I feel you are personally attacking and insulting my intelligence. I'm an Anthropology major, so i think we covered those things sometime during my studies.

Note: this is said with sarcasm.

or did you think i was just another Mexican farmworker????!!

The notion that Mexicans are not extraordinarily familiar with, and well adapted to a hot environment in comparison with their American neighbors closer to the poles is, well, pretty goofy.

Again, you are making generalizations. As a Latina that shares Mexican heritage, i am COMPLETELY and utterly offended.

[Becky, I know you speak from experience, having grown up in the Valley.

I can't testify from having done the work (thank goodness), but in another day job a few years ago, I did work up close and personal with farm worker and anti-poverty grassroots organizations all along the border, from Brownsville to McAllen to Laredo and El Paso, Las Cruces and Tucson and San Diego. I'll support your observations: It's not a life that most of us in middle-class America can even begin to fathom.

Robin, i want to apologize. I usually stay out of "discussions" like this, but this struck me deep. I felt a personal attack on who i am.

I know this is not what you want LHB to be, neither do i. Again, i'm sorry for allowing my emotion to have marred the forum.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/aginjury/

Approximately 1,818,000 full-time workers were employed in production agriculture in the U.S. in 2008. During this same year, 456 farmers and farm workers died from a work-related injury for a fatality rate of 25.1 deaths per 100,000 workers.


An estimated 1.12 million children and adolescents under 20 years of age resided on farms in 2006, with about 590,000 of these youth performing work on the farms. In addition to the youth who live on farms, an additional 307,000 children and adolescents were hired to work on U.S. farms in 2006.


On average, 113 youth less than 20 years of age die annually from farm-related injuries (1995 -2002), with most of these deaths occurring to youth 16-19 years of age (34%).

Of the leading sources of fatal injuries to youth on U.S. farms, 23% percent involved machinery (includes tractors), 19% involved motor vehicles (includes ATVs), and 16% were due to drowning.


In 2006, an estimated 23,100 children and adolescents were injured on farms; 5,800 of these injuries were due to farm work.


Between 1992 and 2007, 8088 farmers and farm workers died from work-related injuries in the US. The leading cause of death for these workers was tractor overturns, accounting for an average of 96 deaths annually.



Every day, about 243 agricultural workers suffer lost-work-time injury. Five percent of these injuries result in permanent impairment.

. Mexicans generally know how to deal with heat. .

Wow, saw this before I had lunch..thought thats really a F'd up thing to say....went and ate...came back and looked it over again....Yep..still offensive. The fact that you (Dan)stated "I have no idea why you are offended by my suggestion that Mexicans know how to deal with the heat" shows a lack of logical thinking. It does not take much effort to see why this statement could cause someone to be offended.

[Robin Garr]

Robin, i want to apologize. I usually stay out of "discussions" like this, but this struck me deep. I felt a personal attack on who i am.

I know this is not what you want LHB to be, neither do i. Again, i'm sorry for allowing my emotion to have marred the forum.

I don't blame you for responding in this case, Becky. You have nothing to apologize for to me.

Fatalities are difficult to measure when they're caused by getting sprayed with pesticides. Do you count the miscarriages? Do you count birth defects? Do you count the cancers due to exposure to these chemicals?

I strongly suspect you'll find a lot more "deaths" than 4-5 per year. Maybe 4-5 on-the-spot heat stroke deaths, but those are the tip of the iceberg.

Speaking of iceberg, I'm going to shoot off an email to a buddy of mine whose family owns the farms that produce most of the lettuce coming out of Yuma (AZ not CA, but close).....ahhhhh, the power of Facebook.

I don't agree w/ everything that DanB said but he did use the word "generally" in his statement which implies that he's generalizing. This shows that he's either a) sympathetic to stereotypes or b) pretending that he's sympathetic to stereotypes. I think that we should give the guy the benefit of the doubt & go w/ a) until we have reason to think otherwise. His statement regarding humans that live the equator is accurate. There's empirical evidence (Jablonski & Chaplin) to suggest that there's a high correlation between the tone of human skin & annual ultraviolet (UV) radiation. There's also empirical evidence that shows that darker skin tones are better at filtering against UV light (it does a better job of preventing it from getting under the skin to cause sunburns). I just think that before we get emotional & start jumping on each other we should try & find out if there's any truth in a claim that we may think is controversial at first glance.

I think that working in the sun for prolonged amounts of time is hard for anyone, no matter where they're from, no matter what type of skin they have or whether or not they're used to air conditioning or warm water instead of ice water, but there are certain people that have very specific advantages due to environmental factors & evolution & I think that's what DanB was trying to say. I don't know the guy but I hate to see insinuations that someone is doing/saying something that they're not actually doing/saying. I think that we can all agree that these conditions could be improved.

Sorry, but I need to chime in some more on this thread. The more I read, the more bad taste in my mouth I have...

Thanks for putting some numbers out there Justin. There are many out there. Here's another link with some discussion of how dangerous it is for the migrant farm workers: (quote below) http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/re ... 0/1213.pdf

Agricultural surpasses mining as the nation's most dangerous occupation. So when DanB scoffs at the 4-5 deaths as trivial it is insulting to the rest of us who actually dig a bit deeper or who know of the situation. My son is named after a good friend of mine who has devoted his life to helping others and who has spent decades working with workers around the country, mostly farmworkers. He spent years and years working in Oregon with oppressed and abused farmworkers. Then he worked in the South with poultry workers, then up to Wisconsin. So I think - at least a little bit - about the plight of farmworkers in our country a little bit everyday. My son is named after a hero in my life (my friend's name is Leone Bicchieri). When I say my son's name it has special meanings to me.

When DanB says "Mexicans know how to deal with the heat." yes, I too am offended. In the past, many cultures did "deal with heat" - by taking a siesta during the hot part of the day. But modern US farm owners don't allow that. The migrant farm workers work their butts off all day long, doing back-breaking work in often horrible conditions.

And then DanB says the word "apologies" yet cavalierly - in the very same paragraph - goes on to keep making his point (which was never actually clearly made), even condescendingly saying "get it?" (and then righteously alluding to "common sense," as if he has it and the other readers don't). Gee, thanks Dan.

Dan, you have some work to do in the apology department. I don't think you get it. I recommend you quit while you're behind, before you dig yourself deeper.

Cheers, happy Derby everyone!!!

Quotes from the link I posted above:

"A nutritional survey done by Chase, et al, in 1971 in
Colorado derived from their maternal interviews an estimate
of infant mortality among Mexican American farmworkers in
Colorado that was nearly three times that of the general
population (63 per 1,000).19 A more recent study (1978)
randomly surveyed 145 married women in migrant farmworker
households in Wisconsin.20 Of these, 132 women had
given birth to a total of 629 children (excluding stillbirths).
The reported infant mortality rate was 29 per 1,000, while
early childhood deaths (age 0-5 years) occurred at a rate of
46 per 1,000. Cause of death was not reported. Large-scale
maternal interview studies to define infant mortality in the
farmworker population have not been undertaken.
Unfortunately, a large sample of perinatal outcome data
from migrant health centers has never been analyzed for
publication in the peer-reviewed literature. Migrant Health
Centers have been estimated to reach approximately 17
percent (500,000) of the estimated 3 million who live in
migrant and seasonal farmworker families.13 Women receiving
comprehensive perinatal care in a migrant health center
might be expected to have lower infant mortality rates than
those who receive no prenatal care prior to hospital delivery
or those whose babies are delivered by a traditional birth
attendant, but this has never been documented.
Occupational Risks
In 1987 agriculture surpassed mining as the nation's most
hazardous occupation with 1,700 work-related deaths (52 per
100,000 workers). The US Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates
that there are 12.7 cases of injury and illness per 100
fulltime workers per year.2' Several reviews of the specific
occupational hazards of agricultural labor are available.3.22
Hazards include chronic and acute pesticide exposures, lack
of safe drinking water and toilets, occupational dermatoses,
acute injuries (falling from heights and farm machinery
injuries), and chronic low-grade back and joint trauma. Most
of these risks have been poorly quantified. One study of
emergency room visits for farm equipment injuries suggests
a methodology for future studies and monitoring of acute
agricultural illnesses and injuries."