A Louisville City Market Tsunami

This post may belong on the other forum, I'm not sure. If that is the case Robin, please feel free to move it.

A couple of weeks ago we were discussing farmers markets and I thought this post might make for a good extension of that tsunami errrr...I mean discussion. Attached are photos from the Westside Market in downtown Cleveland. After reading about the market, my question then is would this...or would this not work in L'ville. and why or why not..

The Westside Market has been around for over 100 years and is partially subsidized by the city of Cleveland. There are currently over 110 individual vendors in the market, most of them family operations which have had a market presence for generations. Everyone has a market "specialty", in other words I might be selling beef that I butchered in the basement of the market...The guy next to me might sell pork and homemade sausage, the lady across from me might sell baked goods, the fish guy is down the hall, etc, etc. The market is not (!!!) a "farmers market" per-say although you will find vendors who specialize in selling only locally raised meats and in season there is a significant (but again not exclusive) presence of local produce. The ethnicity of Cleveland is reflected in the market both in terms of the vendors and the products they sell. You find a very large footprint of Mediterranean and eastern European specialties; Homemade Sausages, breads, sweets, etc. There is also a Latin American element as well as a minor Asian presence. Besides the regular vendors there is a Mediterranean restaurant, a coffee bar and several sandwich stands. In terms of pricing, the market is "old school"...and often there is room for negotiating (particularly on the days proceeding a closed day). I've never felt this was the kind of place where backroom pricing deals are cut on before the doors open...in other words it's as free market as it gets.

For those interested, here is a link to their VERY good website. It describes the markets history, lists the vendors and their specialties and their is a fairly good "tour" link as well.

http://www.westsidemarket.org/about.html

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A few more pics from the Westside Market

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Having grown up in Cleveland - and frequenting the WSideMkt, I think I can answer you!

1. Cleveland has 3M people; Louisville has 1M (counting SMSA's)

2. Cleveland is a city in which the majority of the people are first to third generation Eastern European immigrands; Louisville is not. What this means is that if you are Estonian, you know that you can go to the WSIdeMkt and find an Estonian butcher and baker, and buy foods from home.

3. While Cleveland does not have the breadth or quality of restaurants that Louisville does (which I truly believe), it does have a culture where "going out" translates for most to going to someone's house for dinner, meaning that people tend to go somewhere where they can buy interesting ingredients.

4. The City of Clevland has been proactive (never thought I'd use the words Cleveland and Proactive in the same sentence!) in adding Latin and Asian booths. I think Louisville at the moment - other than the bridges - tends to be more of a "reactive" city (and even Cleveland wasn't as proactive until around ten yrs ago when the Market was having a downturn and the powers that be decided to take action).

Also, it isn't doing all THAT well . . . when I was a kid it was open 6 days/week, while now it's down to four days.

Finally, if you go there (and I strongly recomend you do!) be careful buying from the farmer's market section in the front - if they don't know you, and if you aren't watching, you'll point to gorgeous veges and when you get home you'll find a lot of bruised and spoiling fruit & veges in your bag.

I think it is unforgivable that we don't have a real public market. The destruction of the Haymarket here back in the '60s (When will we ever stop feeling the effects of the stupidity of Urban Renewal?) set us back 50 years. Look at what Rochester NY has - and unlike Cleveland, Greater Rochester is almost exactly the same size as Louisville Metrohttp://www.cityofrochester.gov/article.aspx?id=8589936780

I know there are rumors of the possibility of something in NuLu. I hope it materializes. As enjoyable as the neighborhood farmers' markets are, there is no substitute for a large multi-ethnic public market.

Rochester is nowhere near as hip as Louisville and its restaurant scenes pales miserably in comparison. But the Market - and Wegman's - a phenomenon I want to hold forth about sometime - give Rochester a food resource we just don't have. Why?

Andrew,

I agree with almost everything in your post (although I'm still trying to digest using the words Cleveland and proactive in the same sentence)....I haven't been a frequent visitor since the early 90's but from what I've seen in fairly recent times the market appears to be holding it's own. Like you I was surprised to learn that the market was only open 4 days a week now.

In terms of something like this flying in The Ville....ehhhhhhhhh I'm kinda riding the fence on that one. If one were to limit a city type market to only "farmers" and "locavores" then hell freaking no it won't fly. 90% of the people (and I'm pulling that percentage out of my butt BTW) don't really care where there food comes from. They want it fresh and they want it reasonably priced and quite frankly the I have trouble using the words "reasonably priced" and "farmers markets" in the same sentence (and to be really-really honest on occasion I've found fresher produce at Meijer). On the other hand if a smaller scale city market were to come to pass and it was a true "open market" then heck yeah it might fly. You don't necessarily have to have all kinds of eastern European (Estonian ) products...just a honest people who are looking to make a reasonable buck selling good products.

BTW, just as an FYI...my recollection is that I took most of these pictures about 8 a.m. on a Monday morning, so yeah the place looks dead (I did "lift" one picture from the 'net).

I know there are rumors of the possibility of something in NuLu. I hope it materializes. As enjoyable as the neighborhood farmers' markets are, there is no substitute for a large multi-ethnic public market.

I concur...

That market and a few restaurants in Cleveland are the only reasons I want to spend a weekend up there this Spring/Summer.

There are three possible reasons to go to a Public Market rather than a super market: 1. cheaper stuff 2. i local and/or organic stuff 3. weird and hard to find and maybe super high-quality stuff. Rochester's had all three (though their locavore/organic culture is not as strong as here), mixing and matching - and I think it's important to have all three. You get a mix of poor folks, rich folks, hippies, foodies, and the just plain hungry. That makes community and food matter. I don't want it to be just a bargain place or a locavore place or an ethnic market. It has to be all three to work.

That market and a few restaurants in Cleveland are the only reasons I want to spend a weekend up there this Spring/Summer.

The Rock Hall of Fame is great, the Art Museum is the second largest in the Country (to the Met), the W. Reserve Historical Society is a very nice history museum, in the summer there are several lake-side events, you really CAN spend a great weekend there!

I think a market like the one in Cleveland could work very well here especially if it had quite a few "fixed" vendors such as butchers, bakers, cheese shops, etc so that people could make plans on what items they would be able to find when shopping there. This area needs to be fully enclosed and open six days per week you round. Attached to it could be additional selling areas for seasonal items. The location is critical in that it needs to be readily accessible to the entire community instead of located in a niche area. A good location may be at the fairgrounds, maybe the section across the street where the old Executive East was located.

I'm originally from Rochester New York and their market is actually much smaller than the website leads you to believe. While it is open year round it only thrives during the summer and fall. It is primarily outside with several fixed vendors like I mentioned above. It is located in a Highlands like area and while the people in the immediate vicinity frequent it, it does not draw many people from outside the immediate area. This is mainly due to accessibility issues. The area actually has another market on the south side that is only open seasonally and it is more like a large farmers market.

Pricing, parking, and fixed vendors would be my top concerns. I'm just imagining Lotsa Pasta, Mike Best's/Kingsley's, Highland Seafood/Seafood Connection, Choi's, Harvest Bread/Blue Dog, and Paul's/Creation Gardens all under one roof. Just creating a grocery store with all local vendors. I don't think the place would have to be huge to be succesful. Something on the smaller side could help keep rent low and keep prices around supermarket levels.

Little Rock, another river city, has a nice market, and I believe Louisville is larger than LR. If they can do it, why can't Louisville? The riverfront area there is pretty nice, too, and getting better. Disclosure: I grew up there, and still visit family frequently. Check it out: http://www.rivermarket.info/

St. Louis also has an interesting market: http://www.soulardmarket.com/
Granted, it has some goofy, flea market-type stalls, but also some very interesting produce and ethnic stalls.

Louisville could do this, and make it great. I like Justin's concept.

That could be kinda neat, plus you have all the small vendors around town like the guy that makes sauces and dressings, the lady in La Grange that makes cookies, isn't there someone working on a beverage idea as well?

Having lived in Nashville for 18+ years, I was exposed to that city's Farmers Market from the days of the sheds to it's newer, vastly improved generation. It has a fixed set of vendors (Seafood, Meat, several ethinic, spice, etc.) plus a couple of eating establishments all under climate controled indoor environ. In the warmer months, the outside part is where all the plants, most of the farm produce, some "flea market" type places, etc. You can easily make a Saturday morning there prowling, and it's not hard to drop a couple of C notes and have a car load of goodies....have done that on several occasions.

It's just north of town, and is very accessable to all areas. It's well thought out, and has it's own metro board.