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One more server thread.

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Gary Z

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One more server thread.

by Gary Z » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:07 am

Hello. My name is Gary. I just signed up and this is my first post, but I have been following this board for about a year and a half. I have been working in the foodservice industry here in Louisville for almost 20 years. I came up through the kitchen but have been working in the FOH for about the last half of that. I have held every imaginable position in a restaurant, from prep cook to GM, but am currently serving. This post is going to be a little long, but I promise to keep it short in the future.

Not to ruffle feathers right off the bat, but I would be remiss if I didn't say that the reason I didn't sign up before now is because I find a lot of the non-industry people on this board elitist and off putting. I've also had some issues with the way objecting opinions are suppressed, especially when the topic relates to chains vs. locals.

Be that as it may, I finally got motivated to get involved on this board after the explosion of anti-server sentiment evident in recent threads. Threads like "$$How Much is a Server Worth$$" and annemarie's one about how servers don't listen anymore.

The truth is, you get what you pay for. Obviously, you're going to get better service at Jack Fry's than at Tumbleweed. What is not obvious is that this has nothing to do with the food, the ambience, the management or the ownership. It is directly related to the menu pricing and PPA. Good, professional servers go where the money is. Low dollar, casual dining concepts hire people with no experience and marginal skills. This seems like a no-brainer, but when I hear complaints about things like not being able to get a Coke with no ice, I'm betting that didn't happen at Seviche or Varanese.

*** I have to clarify the above statement by saying that I am aware that the food, ambience, etc, are all important in maintaining a successful restaurant. If those things don't happen, no one will eat there anyway and the service point is moot.

Now, to the point of how much a server is worth, and how much they should make per hour. Honestly, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. So a server made $75 an hour. She waited on a 12 top of pharmaceutical reps. They drank a lot of expensive wine and ate filets. They ran up a $1400 bill and were gone less than 3 hours after they arrived. Should she apologize that the automatic gratuity yielded her $280, or $230 after tipping out the bar and the bussers? No, because that doesn't happen every night. There are plenty of nights when the water-drinking/entree-splitting campers are tying up her section, and she walks with $60. It's the nature of the business.

But to hear some of you draw the comparison of what servers make to what teachers make or what civil servants make is just ridiculous. It's comparable to me complaining that I don't make what Tom Brady makes, and he only works 5 months out of the year. Apples and oranges. The argument is ridiculous.-

And then we have the lists. You know... the list of 100 things a server should never do, and the one about 100 things a guest should never do. Throw them both away. They're both useless. They don't address the real issues. Things like how you thought I was inattentive, but rudely kept your cellphone to your ear for 30 minutes. Or why I left your table in disarray after you left 10 used Kleenex and some dental floss on it. These things go both ways. Just make sure you, as a guest, are deserving of the service you think you're entitled to.

Whew. I think I'm done. I hope that didn't come off as too antagonistic or as too much of a rant. Hopefully this is well received, and if not, I welcome a decent debate.
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JustinHammond

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Re: One more server thread.

by JustinHammond » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:30 am

Gary S wrote:Now, to the point of how much a server is worth, and how much they should make per hour. Honestly, it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. So a server made $75 an hour. She waited on a 12 top of pharmaceutical reps. They drank a lot of expensive wine and ate filets. They ran up a $1400 bill and were gone less than 3 hours after they arrived. Should she apologize that the automatic gratuity yielded her $280, or $230 after tipping out the bar and the bussers? No, because that doesn't happen every night. There are plenty of nights when the water-drinking/entree-splitting campers are tying up her section, and she walks with $60. It's the nature of the business.

But to hear some of you draw the comparison of what servers make to what teachers make or what civil servants make is just ridiculous. It's comparable to me complaining that I don't make what Tom Brady makes, and he only works 5 months out of the year. Apples and oranges. The argument is ridiculous.-


I don't think anyone was arguing that a server shouldn't/couldn't make $75 on any given night. The argument was, is a server worth $75 an hour for every hour and every day he/she works, and my answer is no.
I don't quite understand the Tom Brady point. There are only a handful of "Tom Bradys" in the entire world, there a millions of servers. The point is what is "fair"? Is it fair for a teacher or cop to make $40,000 and a server $150,00. If so, good luck finding a cop or teacher next time you need one.

One last thing. If a person orders a Coke with no ice that is what they should get. I don't care if they are at Jack Frys or KFC.
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TP Lowe

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Re: One more server thread.

by TP Lowe » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:13 am

Wow. I've stayed out of all the threads you mention, but I really appreciate you coming on with your first post and lumping us all together as horrible people with whom you can't possibly agree. Hope you feel better. And, by the way, I can't recall having ever answered a cell phone in a restaurant.
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Bill P

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Re: One more server thread.

by Bill P » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:54 am

Gary S wrote:
Not to ruffle feathers right off the bat, but I would be remiss if I didn't say that the reason I didn't sign up before now is because I find a lot of the non-industry people on this board elitist and off putting.


That describes me perfectly...non-industry plus "elitist and off putting". I wouldn't worry about ruffling feathers as most of us have a pretty thick skin when it come to folks coming in here and hurling unfounded insults.
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Re: One more server thread.

by Steve H » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:02 am

The skills of a good server are more rare than those of the average teacher or police officer. They are completely different fields; so, I don't see the contradiction if some servers make more. Which I think is Gary's point in bringing up Tom Brady, completely different field and skill set. Tom Brady would probably starve if had to make a living serving.
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Re: One more server thread.

by Steve H » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 am

Bill P wrote:
Gary S wrote:
Not to ruffle feathers right off the bat, but I would be remiss if I didn't say that the reason I didn't sign up before now is because I find a lot of the non-industry people on this board elitist and off putting.


That describes me perfectly...non-industry plus "elitist and off putting". I wouldn't worry about ruffling feathers as most of us have a pretty thick skin when it come to folks coming in here and hurling unfounded insults.


Just try living west of I-65 and outside the Watterson, being a wayward conservative Democrat... and liking it. This makes me quadrupley untouchable. I know exactly what Gary means when he says off-putting. I'm not calling anyone out, so if you object to this, then you are self identifying as off-putting. :lol:
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Re: One more server thread.

by John Hagan » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:17 am

Welcome to the forum Gary. I think you make some good points. Im fairly sure you will have ruffled a few feathers here, as this forum is not noted for its"thick skin". Im not in the industry but have friends who are and they have mentioned similar thoughts to me about the forum. In the short time Ive been on here it does seems as though we have less "industry" folks participating,although I have no way to quantify that. I also agree with you that the lists of a hundred dos and donts for servers and customers was offensive.That said, it wouldnt be as interesting here if we all just exchanged pleasantries and avoided any type of friction. I would suggest a thicker skin for all,as well as remembering Robins vision of this being a virtual pub thats conducive to lively debate and discussion.
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Re: One more server thread.

by JustinHammond » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:35 am

Steve H wrote:The skills of a good server are more rare than those of the average teacher or police officer. They are completely different fields; so, I don't see the contradiction if some servers make more. Which I think is Gary's point in bringing up Tom Brady, completely different field and skill set. Tom Brady would probably starve if had to make a living serving.



I have to disagree. I know Brady can multitask and I bet he washes his hands. I think with enough time Brady could be trained to ge a good server. I don't think a server can be trained to be a Hall of Fame NFL QB.

My argument is that both a teacher and police officer require more education and are more dangerous. Why are we comparing a "good" server to an "average" teacher. Be fair and compare good to good. I just find it funny that servers think they are the only people with hard, under appreciated jobs. I always treat servers with respect, clean up after myself, and tip well. Almost every profession has to deal with the assholes and dumbasses of the world; I know I do.
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Re: One more server thread.

by Carla G » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:52 am

Welcome to the forum Gary S. A great deal of what you say is true, it's hard to graciously accept criticism from either side of the table. Hopefully the lines of discussion will stay open, everyone will have a chance to vent and maybe we'll walk away with at least a glimpse of the other person's POV and we'll learn. Right?

As far as the comparison of pay vs different fields of professions, I don't know... I can't help thinking about teachers or chefs or most any other profession that went to school and are carrying school loans in order to learn their profession. Servers do not have this expense. NO ONE goes to college, takes out a student loan and pays a tuition, to learn to be a food server . At least not around here. Perhaps in Europe. Here you start at some Tumbleweed-esque restaurant to learn the basics and then hone your skills as you work all the while earning some (if sometimes meager) income. You can become a skillful server, develope a nice portfolio history and never pay a dime. Instead you earn income the entire time, even if it isn't a great deal. Point is, you don't come out of college, take an entry position someplace earning entry level pay AND carry the burden of 10s of thousands of dollars in student loans.

I'm not sure if this is fair to food servers either. Say you deside to go into management with the restaurant you've been dilligently working in , the first thing they ask is "Where's your college?" Doesn't matter that you've come up through the ranks and know the FOH and BOH from experience, they want that sheepskin if you want to move up in the business. So I ask this... should we start asking for degrees in the foodservice industry for all aspects of the business? Just wondering. :?:
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Re: One more server thread.

by Steve H » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:16 am

JustinHammond wrote:I know Brady can multitask and I bet he washes his hands. I think with enough time Brady could be trained to ge a good server.

Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone has the aptitude and attitude to be a good server. I don't know why you assume everyone can do it.

JustinHammond wrote:Why are we comparing a "good" server to an "average" teacher. Be fair and compare good to good.
I only do this to refute the notion that a server can never earn more than a teacher or police officer. I think there is some overlap, where as many in the previous server thread seemed to imply it was immoral for a server to ever earn more than a teacher or police officer.

JustinHammond wrote: I just find it funny that servers think they are the only people with hard, under appreciated jobs.
No one ever said this.
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Re: One more server thread.

by Steve P » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:49 am

Welcome to the forum Gary.
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Re: One more server thread.

by Bill Veneman » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:53 am

Most definatly welcome Gary. We can always use some "fresh blood" in the opinion quarum.

I must admit, you made some valid points, although I don't agree with them all.
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Cheers!

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Re: One more server thread.

by JustinHammond » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:17 am

Steve H wrote: Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone has the aptitude and attitude to be a good server. I don't know why you assume everyone can do it.


I didn't say everyone; I said Brady. Maybe not the attitude, but certainly the aptitude. College grad with honors, I think someone could train him.

Steve H wrote: I think there is some overlap, where as many in the previous server thread seemed to imply it was immoral for a server to ever earn more than a teacher or police officer.



I don't know about immoral, but maybe unfair.

Steve H wrote: No one ever said this.


I don't see any cooks, chefs, bartenders, or hostess saying they should be making $75 an hour.
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Re: One more server thread.

by Kyle L » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:23 am

I don't see any cooks, chefs, bartenders, or hostess saying they should be making $75 an hour.


Because I was led to believe we were only discussing Servers in a Server Thread.
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Re: One more server thread.

by JustinHammond » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:32 am

Kyle L wrote:
I don't see any cooks, chefs, bartenders, or hostess saying they should be making $75 an hour.


Because I was led to believe we were only discussing Servers in a Server Thread.


Anywhere on the forum.
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