My problem with the Highlands & Bardstown Road

One issue, we both have, is why didn't the zoning laws dictate a bit more control over Bardstown Road? It would be great if all the stores, restaurants, bars etc were all together instead of spread out all over the place. Also, there should be some restriction on fast food joints and car repair joints. I wish Bardstown Road would be more like Nob Hill in Portland, Oregon, Mt. Adams in Cincinnati, Gas Town in San Diego, The West Village in NYC, Newberry Street in Boston, Adams Morgan in D.C., The Cow Hollow in San Francisco, Ocean Boulevard and Lincoln Road in Miami Beach, etc. I'm sure you get my drift. I know you risk becoming somewhat generic, but I do believe it would become more pedestrian friendly and charming. Maybe I'm showing my age. Perhaps I should start this as a new post and stir up some emotion. I think I will. Phil

[Robin Garr]

I dunno, Phil ... zoning certainly does exist - that's why the stores are on Bardstown (and just around the corners) while the nearby side streets are residential, and nice residential at that.

Bear in mind that this strip has evolved generically over at least 100 years, and in its current style since probably the 1970s. It is what it is, and it got that way naturally, not as the result of a coordinated process.

It reminds me a bit of North Clark and Lincoln and Halstead avenues in Chicago, if we're going to pick big-city examples. Or maybe more like the Marina District than Cow Hollow, if you want to use San Francisco?

By the way, have you been around enough yet to form an opinion about the differing styles of Bardstown Road and Frankfort Avenue? I find them similar only different but have a slight tilt toward Frankfort, probably mainly because I live there. If you will consider specifically the stretch from roughly Fat Jimmy's and Heine Bros. east to Blue Dog, it has an intriguing personality but one that seems very different from Bardstown. Stroll along past the Carnegie Library, Crescent Hill Baptist Church, St. Mark's Episcopal, the rather nice infill condos next to Blue Dog and on out past the Water Company (avert your eyes at Mom's until they get it renovated), and you really feel like you might have slipped back to the 19th century. Or maybe a less familiar part of Paris.

Zoning didn't do that, but personally I like it.

Robin,
We do like Frankfort Avenue more then Bardstown. However, that is of course after only three weeks of experience for me. It just seems to have more of a chic feel, for fault of sounding pretentious. Yet, to coin Crosby, Stills, and Nash, "I am older now" and get turned on by different things. If it was 1969, I probably would have loved sitting on a stoop on Bardstown Road.

[Robin Garr]

If it was 1969, I probably would have loved sitting on a stoop on Bardstown Road.

There were a lot more hippies around there then ...

Seriously, though, I have often opined that if you want to characterize the strips broadly, Frankfort Avenue is Baby Boom, Bardstown Road is GenY or Millennial or whatever in the hell they call it now ...

Phil,

To some extent I agree with your point. It would be nice if things along Bardstown flowed a little better, and perhaps trickled back onto the side streets some. I notice this especially when I have out-of-town guests. There are basically 4-5 distinct "areas" along Bardstown Road. The first is the Douglas Loop area, the second is the area running roughly from Speed to just past Bonnycastle, the third is the "straddling" Eastern Parkway area, the fourth runs from roughly Avalon/Bristol down to Ramsi's/Mid-City Mall, and the fourth runs roughly from the Pie Kitchen/Jack Fry's area and includes the Baxter Avenue bars.

My point is that you can start in one area, and are able to walk easily between maybe 2 areas, but any more than that may require a car. My friends have often pointed out that if this all was "squished" more together and made a little more pedestrian friendly, it would be great. Part of me agrees, but the other doesn't. First, as Robin points out, the area has just grown as it will, and that adds character to it. The second is that if everything was squished too close together, we likely wouldn't have such a long strip. It's very nice that we have this 2+ mile stretch of many great shops, restaurants, and bars, even though there are sections of disconnect. As much as it would be convenient for me if the current Bardstrown Road was squeezed into Douglas Loop to Eastern Parkway, I like the fact that there is so much to do way down on the other end, and wouldn't want to lose that. It also helps to keep the residential areas behind Bardstown Road pretty vibrant, as the commercial area runs so far.

All that being said, hopefully new and exciting things begin/continue to appear along Bardstown Road to fill in those gaps.

I think most of this applies to Frankfort Ave. as well, as there are noticeable "areas" along Frankfort.

One issue, we both have, is why didn't the zoning laws dictate a bit more control over Bardstown Road? It would be great if all the stores, restaurants, bars etc were all together instead of spread out all over the place. Also, there should be some restriction on fast food joints and car repair joints. I wish Bardstown Road would be more like Nob Hill in Portland, Oregon, Mt. Adams in Cincinnati, Gas Town in San Diego, The West Village in NYC, Newberry Street in Boston, Adams Morgan in D.C., The Cow Hollow in San Francisco, Ocean Boulevard and Lincoln Road in Miami Beach, etc. I'm sure you get my drift. I know you risk becoming somewhat generic, but I do believe it would become more pedestrian friendly and charming. Maybe I'm showing my age. Perhaps I should start this as a new post and stir up some emotion. I think I will. Phil

Phil,

Just one comment...and then I'll refrain from further postings in this thread (I don't "do' online emotion).

When we moved here 7 months ago, like most people in our situation we were concerned about "fitting in" to our new environment. Sensing our trepidation our Realtor was kind enough to give us some sage advice about living in Kentucky which for some reason I feel compelled to pass along. He said that "if you will acknowledge and accept Kentucky and it's residents for what and who they are then they will accept you for who you are...no matter what". He went on to say that "Most folks in Kentucky aren't interested in how you did things where you came and one of the quickest way to be labeled as someone with their nose in the air and a stick up their a** (his words - not mine) is to keep telling people about much better things were where you came from".

If it is your intention to stir some emotions with this type of post, I'm sure you will find your share of fellow travelers who will agree with your position. I'm also sure that you will alienate a lot of other people (who may not be so vocal) by regularly finding fault with your new surroundings whether that be with the style of pizza/sandwiches one finds locally or the perceived lack of zoning in the area you chose to live in.

Not to pile on....

Phil, I've very much enjoyed interacting with you and I think you've brought a cool spark to the forum discussions of late. And while I am in no way saying I think you're a snob...I will say that I could see where some people might perceive some of your posts as "snobb-ish".

I always enjoy steering new people towards the businesses and restaurants I love, since it's now my adopted home of...yikes - 26 years! And your questions and comments don't bother me, as a matter of fact, they give me a new perspective.

I will say that I can see where some folks might get the wrong idea, though. A few times it seems that, although you're trying so hard to love Louisville, you're finding it difficult. I am definitely not discounting all the praise you have heaped on the places you've loved...it's just that you seem just as quick to find fault. And, it seems like you sort of like getting a rise out of the natives, which is fine. Just don't go overboard.

I mean, what are we supposed to do about your problem with the Highlands? This neighborhood has grown organically over the last 10 decades or so - there's really very little chance the whole thing could be restructured. Sure, I wish Bardstown Road was 6 lanes and there was plenty of parking, but there's not, and there's not going to be. You're very fortunate to be able to afford a home in this neighborhood! Relax and enjoy it - maybe you'll come to appreciate it more.

And on the basketball tip - just give in and let it wash over you like the ocean. Resistance is futile

Edited to say: Phil, I know you never complained about the number of lanes or the parking situation on Bardstown, that's MY unfulfilled wish for the neighborhood, not yours. I understand your lament, you wish it was more like Little Five Points in Atlanta or one of those other super-concentrated bohemian neighborhoods you mentioned....so many of.

If I may join in the fray . . . my family and I moved here almost 4 years ago from St. Louis (a city many people regard with disdain). We lived there for 17 years and raised our kids there. It is a wonderful family town, and we miss it a lot. My husband and I also lived in Houston, San Diego, Kansas City, and we grew up in Little Rock. There is something wonderful about every place we have lived - sometimes it just took some time to find it. I love exploring new cities and neighborhoods, and have found Louisville to be filled with wonderful places - especially the restaurants. Of course, we miss being by the ocean in SD, the Hispanic culture of Texas, the Country Club Plaza in KC, and too many places in STL to list. But all those places had their faults, too. I prefer to find the good parts of a city and learn to embrace them. Louisville has a lot of good parts, and we are glad to be here.

I think Bardstown Road's eclectic persona is uniquely Louisville. Other cities may have similar areas (STL's Delmar Loop and Central West End come to mind), but each city's area makes its own statement. I really wouldn't want the same thing replicated in every town I visit.

Yeah - I don't think you're a snob at all, but I've heard this all before and I've never really liked it when the city gets a negative review. I like where I live. Louisville is personalized by it's inhabitants. I do want to tell you though, Phil, that I have been really enjoying the debates you've brought to the forum.

Well, I really know I am not a snob, but I am analytical about my surroundings and since I have traveled extensively throughout the world, I feel it is important to critique urban development or basically anything. If we remain reactionary and just accept things they way they are, nothing ever progresses. I have asked about development in New York, when I lived there, and I am very concerned about the gentrification of the city and the homogenization created by the Rudy Regime. When I lived in Milwaukee, I was a developer while I still taught school, and continuously tried to get the city to progress beyond its provincial attitude. Finally, after holding on to buildings for close to 15 years, the city of Milwaukee helped us develop an area called the "Third Ward" which is reminiscent of New York's Soho. It is a thriving exciting area. I do not simply accept things the way they are and I am an advocate for change and progressive development. If that will alienate me from Louisville, so be it. Then, it simply is not a place that I will fit in and Donna will have to fend for herself. I am a child of the Sixties and while in college protested mightily against the Vietnam War and both the Nixon and Johnson presidencies. While at Georgetown, I was very active politically and learned to question the establishment. I do believe the advocacy and aggression of the Sixties brought about incredible change for the better within a myriad of social acceptances. I think the term "snob" is often thrown out when anyone simply wants things to be better and doesn't just say "everything is great."

Re: Marsha - I wish Bardstown Road were 2 lanes and still had the street cars!

Re: MaryB - nice post about Saint Louis. I visited Louisville often and lived here for more than a year before my 3 year stint in St. Louis, after which I'm back here (have been for a little over 2 years). St. Louis is very different, but also very similar to Louisville in a lot of ways. I think the Central West End is probably more what Phil wishes Bardstown Road to be. The two areas have similar styles of bars and restaurants, but the CWE is more interwoven with both the urban and residential, and is more pedestrian friendly (discounting Lindell and Kings Highway), and everything is within walking distance, with normal city blocks. It's not just a strip. On one side of Lindell is bars, restaurants, and shops interwoven among the beautiful "huge" old houses and tree lined streets. This exists here, but for example it's over on Cherokee, etc., not interwoven with Bardstown Road. On the other side of Lindell is shopping, bars, and restaurants in a decidedly urban environment, but still all interwoven together. The whole area is a pretty even mix of high-rise condos and apartments and stately, old residential houses.

To be honest, if Old Louisville ever regains its full grandeur (no offense to residents of Old Louisville, I love it, I'm just making a comparison), it has more potential than either the Highlands or Frankfort Ave to truly mix residential with commercial/dining in an appealing way.

I think Delmar Loop is more similar to Bardstown Road, where you'll find a block of development, and then a block of nothing, and most of the residential is back behind Delmar on either side.

I lived in the CWE, and found it to be a magical place, and an area I dearly miss. I went to Wash U, so I am also very familar with the Loop. All that being said, I still prefer Louisville to St. Louis, at least most of the time.

Okay, Phil - fair enough. I think some of us weren't calling you a snob, just warning you away from talk that might get you labeled as such by others.

So, Phil - what's your suggestion for re-organizing the businesses and zoning in the Highlands? You must have some pretty good ideas in regards to change and progressive development; I know you're not just bringing it up to highlight how much better other cities handle their bohemian parts of town than we do, and how many better, cooler places you've lived in and traveled to extensively throughout the world.

Phil- it took me a year or more (I moved here 4 years ago) before I stopped comparing everything in town to NYC where I lived for almost 30 years until I realized that there really isn't a need for comparison. When I started to accept at Louisville as it's own special entity I began to enjoy it's uniqueness. That doesn't mean that I don't reference NY in my mind every day, but I don't let the comparison ruin the reality of what is here.
Oh- and I have learned to work around the parts I don't like. Love Bardstown Road and it's restaurants and stores, HATE the weekend traffic, so B'town is my during the week treat. I still haven't got used to all the driving, but that is my own personal bugaboo since I am used to subways -ok, actually taxis (my friends didn't call me Helium Wrist for nothing).
It's all a part of the relocating process and we all go through it in our own way. You have found a great resource for interaction and even friendship here in the forum so , hopefully, your transistion will be easier than it might have been. I look forward to meeting you in a couple weeks at Gayle's.

I am interested in doing some development here. When we first came for the interviewing process, I was very intrigued by downtown. Unfortunately, the economic crisis hit, and I do not know if development for downtown is going to happen until the new arena is built. The mayor of Milwaukee is an old friend of mine, (I'm not trying to be a snob, but he really is an old friend. We were in school together in Madison in the early seventies) and Tom said he would mention my name to Mayor Jerry and I will fill his ear up with some ideas. I would block off a couple of streets around Proof and have outside dining to bring a European energy to the side streets. I would ban fast food chains from an area close to the new arena and encourage local development with tax incentives and low cost loans. I would control the facade of these buildings and require an "Old Louisville" look to the buildings. I would avoid the crass commercialism of a "Fourth Street Live" and bring in some charm and Louisville identification. Development here must represent Louisville uniquely, so that vacationers and convention goers can identify with Louisville over other cities around the United States. If the developers and the city work together, it is easy to create something special. Suburban strip malls do not a city make! Get the businesses that feel compelled to open up in the affluent, suburban areas of Louisville to bring that affluence closer to downtown. Neighborhoods need a visual identity and I do not mean something generically boring. Well, I can go on and on..................I can be so boring!

I also should add that when my New York friends (the dudes I grew up with) heard I was moving to Louisville, Kentucky their comment was, and I quote, "Gissen, you can't move there, they're going to lynch you in Kentucky." Thus, they had an inkling I would be difficult. I am a rather provocative person no matter where I am. I'm the kind of person who stirs up the pot, so to speak. You either hate me or love me. There is no in between. Sorry.