Good or "Faux Good"

As our new year begins with so much pressure on our local restaurants, I am wondering how many restaurants receive glowing reviews from individuals who have either never been there, or who have heard reports from others and base their opinion on those reports.

Case in point; I was at a party this past week and was talking to a couple that went on and on about a local restaurant. My reply to them was" you must visit this restaurant all of the time then". Their reply was, " well, we've never acutually been yet, but everyone says what a great restaurant it is and we see it advertised everywhere, so we assumed that it would live up to its reputation". So my question is the restaurant really as good as we all hoped it would be or has it received a "faux reputation" by assumptions or by its advertising.

I see this all of the time in my industry, coffee. The top 2 coffees in sales in the United States currently are Folger's and Maxwell House. Those that know coffee, certainly can see that that is based not on their flavor or quality profile, but is certainly enhanced by the marketing programs that they enjoy. And to really get scary, the number 1 coffee consumed in the world is Nescafe,an instant coffee that makes huge market share in Europe, Asia, and Australia. So is it good or "faux good"?

Unfortunately, I'm afraid our forum is guilty of "beefing" up the escolades of some restaurants in our area, and then members feel that the restaurant is actually greater than it possibly is. We have so many great independant restaurants in Louisville, and lately I feel that many are being left out of the mix because individuals only go to restaurants that they have heard about or that is doing the most advertising. Unfortunately I have been swayed by certain comments on the forum regarding recommendations, and been very sadly disappointed. Although I value the opinions of others, I don't think we should be "bandwagon jumpers" regarding any certain restaurant until it has truly paid its dues. We have so many restaurants that are truly good, and not "faux good", but because we forget about them, they then get put on the "back burner" and eventually get cold.

I applaud the support that the forum has given our local restaurants and those that make up the "Louisville Originals". These are truly the backbone of our great culinary scene. But really shouldn't all of them, in a way, be our favorite restaurant. If we don't support them all, then one by one they will vanish in the haze.

Back to my party conversation. When asked for a recommendation for a restaurant, I told them, " explore the many restaurant venues we have, not based on any review or opinion, just on what sound intriquing to you. Make a small person review and keep it on record, then if someone asks you for a restaurant to go to, tell them the same thing I told you". Opinion and tastes are all across the board and we should not influence others by our standards. Supporting all of our restaurants will make sure all of them are good and the "faux good" will be a thing of the past.

I understand your point, and agree that what you suggest (the recs without actual experience) is probably true. But it would help me to have more specifics -- which restaurants you've been disappointed by whilst expecting better, and which you've been surprised by because, 1) you've heard or read only negative reviews of them, or 2) you've never heard of them at all.

At this point, it's irrelavent to go into specifics and name names so to speak. My objective of this post was to make sure everyone realizes that starting now, our restaurants are going into a very bleak period and will need all of our support. Some locations, however, seem to receive a little unmerited support and we need to make sure that we realize this.

I don't agree. And it's not simply that I want to know what restaurants you consider worthy of patronizing, because after all, a lot of what we like is pretty personal, and so reviews aren't always reliable. I think we all know that.

But here's my point. It's impossible to know whether you have a good point unless you back it up with some sort of evidence (using coffee as an example isn't enough because it's about a whole nother thing). For your point to be relevant, for your reader to know whether you're making a relevant point, you need to give concrete examples.

And you don't even have to name names to do that. One way to do that would be to paraphrase or quote specific reviews of a particular restaurant (and again, you don't have to name the restaurant) and then offer you own evidence to either support the validity of the review or to report your own concrete experience to the contrary.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but you've suggested that folks here are guilty of what you claim, and you don't say how or when or in what way.

It ends up being a lecture without real content, despite your obvious skill in writing. I'd just like to hear more specifics. If you don't want to do that, well okay. I just thought we could benefit from more content from someone who clearly wants to make a point and who can also write well.

David, I really like your point. But I think the people your addressing have a certain personality trait - let's call it unoriginality. You won't stop them from discussing a restaurant they don't really know any sooner than you'll convince them to design and personalize each of their Christamas cards. I get what you're observing and I understand it's impact. I also want to note that I don't think the generalization of this topic has a lot in common with most of the Hotbytes foodies.

That being said, I'm so way "all for" supporting as many as possible. I know it's easy for some people to get stuck in a rut, but whenever I'm trying to decide where to get a meal, I always start with "where haven't I been lately/ever". It's my programming.

As someone that rarely goes out to eat, I really value your comments on restaurants. I have been prone to comment on restaurants that I haven't been to, but I do qualify the statements by saying that "I have heard". I was following the NYC pizza places on a different thread. I don't have a budget that includes going out to eat, so when I go, it is important to have enough "reviews" to give me a place to start. I have a list of places that I want to visit, and hope to be getting out of the red soon so that I can visit them. But listening to comments can provide a good review. What I do is listen to all the comments i can about places to eat. If I can, I ask what was eaten, what was the cost, and other information to determine if I can afford to dine there, and what options are available. As time goes on, I hear more reviews, and gather more information. Then I have a pretty good notion that if I go to that place the chances are that I will not be disappointed. When I hear how great a place is I always reserve my final opinion for my visit. Without going on and on, I like and need your reviews. I especially liked what you said as well. Just because I haven't heard anything about a place doesn't make it bad or good. It is something to consider.

I'm with Colleen, only - I'd go a step further. I just can't decide if you have a valid point or not (you might!) until I balance what I know about the restaurant/restaurants you're referring to. I'd need to decide for myself if I thought their level of advertising saturation was causing a "beefed up/faux" reputation. It's definitely possible that what you say is true. But the discussion you want to promote ( and I think it would be an interesting discussion, without question) suffers the insurmountable obstacle of ambiguity. Have the courage of your convictions and own your argument - name your example!

To David's defense, he's not in a position to name names - it could adversly affect his profession and company. I value his insight because like everyone else on here, he's just trying to stimulate conversation. I say let him speak. Lord knows we all like to put our opinions out there.

I will go on public record and say that I have never "beefed an escolade" but I have waxed ecstatic on occasion.

I really think that the majority of opinions expressed here are (damn you Fox News for ruining this saying) fair, balanced and factual. If anything, I find that fierce loyalties exist for our independents and people will stand by them come hell or high water because the poster enjoys them. Your mileage may vary at my favorite restaurant but that's the point: It's my favorite place, not yours. I want you to try it and like it as well as I do but in the end only you can decide where to spend your hard earned money.

Okay, well, here's how the original post would read if this was a movie discussion forum:

BEGIN CHANGED QUOTE/As our new year begins with so much pressure on our local film studios, I am wondering how many independent movies receive glowing reviews from individuals who have either never seen them, or who have heard reports from others and base their opinion on those reports.

Case in point; I was at a party this past week and was talking to a couple that went on and on about a currently popular movie. My reply to them was" you must have seen this movie multiple times then". Their reply was, " well, we've never acutually seen it yet, but everyone says what a great movie it is and we see it advertised everywhere, so we assumed that it would live up to its reputation". So my question is the movie really as good as we all hoped it would be or has it received a "faux reputation" by assumptions or by its advertising.

*******************

I applaud the support that the forum has given our local film studios and those that make up the "Louisville Original Independent Filmmakers". These are truly the backbone of our great film industry scene. But really shouldn't all of them, in a way, be our favorite movie. If we don't support them all, then one by one they will vanish in the haze.

Back to my party conversation. When asked for a recommendation for a movie, I told them, " explore the many independent movies currently in theaters, not based on any review or opinion, just on what sound intriquing to you. Make a small person review and keep it on record, then if someone asks you for a movie to go to, tell them the same thing I told you". Opinion and tastes are all across the board and we should not influence others by our standards. Supporting all independent movies will make sure all of them are good and the "faux good" will be a thing of the past. /END

See, it might be a valid point, but what movies are we talking about? Without context, the argument just sort of lays there.

And isn't it unrealistic to ask people to "go to all movies" and not rely on the opinions of their friends and neighbors and families and people who've seen the movie? That's what reputation is. You really can't get a TRULY good one if you consistently deliver sub-par product. While I doubt it, I'm willing to be talked into the idea that there are bad restaurants in this city that just have people on this board gushing over them all the time - but I'd have to know which ones we're talking about. Are we talking about "Batman Returns" versus "The Piano"?

And yes, I understand why David might be reluctant to name the restaurant, given his profession. But, David - you brought it up, man!

Oh snap, I knew you were gonna come back with a good argument, Marsha.

I guess I see his validation because I know the type he speaks of. I just don't really find them on this board so much, but I realize he insenuated such. I would probably be one of the bigger offenders, but I can handle myself. At the risk of speaking up for him, I think the conversation he engaged himself in recently made him think of something that we all probably identify in society, and he shared it. And the forum members on here are not always perfect, but I'm okay with that, too. Just as long as there is good intention. That's the lover in me.

As far as I'm concerned, we're not getting paid to post on this board, so when a foodie proposes a topic, they have no obligation to come clean or clear out.

I like this discussion, and I have a true love for every participant. Keep it up!

I'm with Colleen, only - I'd go a step further. I just can't decide if you have a valid point or not (you might!) until I balance what I know about the restaurant/restaurants you're referring to. I'd need to decide for myself if I thought their level of advertising saturation was causing a "beefed up/faux" reputation. It's definitely possible that what you say is true. But the discussion you want to promote ( and I think it would be an interesting discussion, without question) suffers the insurmountable obstacle of ambiguity. Have the courage of your convictions and own your argument - name your example!

I'm with Dave here and I think I get his point. Word of mouth is critical to any restaurant and building your business (sans an advertising budget) can make or break you. Having said that, if someone came to me and said "have you tried restaurant X, I've heard it's great", and then I go and it sucks, not only am I dissapointed but I feel a disservise has been done to the masses. I think that is what Dave is getting at. It's a given that some restaurants are invariably "hyped" by some for various reasons (mine was no exception and I readily admit it...though I did do some pretty cool stuff) and I guess it is up to us to decide if it is worthy. Any press, be it good or bad, is good press as it drives sales as you well know. I have seen posts on this forum promoting restaurant X, only to be outed by Robin for flagrantly heaping praise with a clear agenda. Do they deserve such praise? Maybe so, but there is a right way and a wrong way to garner support. I applaud Dave for not "outing" any place in particular as that is counterproductive. I suggest we all take a moment and think about all of the places that we may think are undeserving of their cred...and then....go there for dinner and remove any doubt!! On a side note, Dave, did you have your coffee today?

Oh, and I should add to the suggestive movie analogy: I recently rented "Lars and the Real Girl" per a valued opinion, and I hated it. So there. I think a lot of people thought it was so great and discussed the attributes in circles as an artistic masterpiece, giving the impression that you're a philostine if you don't get it. Well, it was lost on me. Now I know better than to listen to THAT person.

Actually Jackie, you might want to listen to that person. If their movie preferences are different from yours, then when they give a movie a stellar review, you can put that movie on the "might see" list, instead of the "gotta see" list. In the example of the movies, I have a friend that didn't like Star Wars. While I loved all of them, I know that when a sci-fi movie comes out and that person sees it. I can use their review to help me decide if it is worth seeing. The response is just in reverse to what I like.

Oh, and I should add to the suggestive movie analogy: I recently rented "Lars and the Real Girl" per a valued opinion, and I hated it. So there. I think a lot of people thought it was so great and discussed the attributes in circles as an artistic masterpiece, giving the impression that you're a philostine if you don't get it. Well, it was lost on me. Now I know better than to listen to THAT person.