Kids At The Bar ?

This seems to be an ever increasing occurrence ? I thought there was some kind of law prohibiting underage kids sitting at the bar ? Within the last month, I have experienced a group of unruly children (approx 4 or 5-years old) sitting at the bar at Martini's while their parents waited for a table; a loud toddler sitting at the bar at Uptown Cafe, and tonight, a couple of 9 or 10-year old girls literally sleeping with their heads on the bar while their parents watched TV at Buckheads. I know I'm old school (mid 50's), but that never would have been allowed or even contemplated back when I was that age. Would like to hear your comments.

It's illegal in Indiana, but I don't know the rule in Kentucky.

Kids at the bar are a no, and generally speak to poor parenting decisions. Why would you want your kid at the bar? What business do they have there? If you are going somewhere and taking the kids maybe the bar isn't the best place, is there no where else to wait for your table? How about this one, if you are going to have kids, maybe you also have to accept that you have to give up the bar for a while, or get a babysitter.

Please, no kids at the bar. Bar is for grown-ups.

Wow, look at me get on a soapbox.

I must concur.. If you have to go to the bar, then hire a babysitter!

Total agreement with you guys here. I can't speak to liquor laws now but 30 years ago - when I was a restaurant manager- it was illegal for a minor to be at or seated at, the bar... EVER.

I would agree as it relates to a saloon, tavern, etc. In a restaurant bar while waiting for a table, no big deal IMO especially if they are just sitting at tables in the bar area with their parents. Just what are kids going to see that will corrupt or damage them? Sorry but I'm not that offended on this one.

I have to disagree with you on this one... A bar is a bar no matter where it is located.

if there is liquor, beer and wine being served out of it then children have no business sitting at it!

A bar, in any shape, form or fashion, is no place for those underaged. Call me old fashioned, but the story about the children sleeping with their heads on the bar gives me pause to wonder what kind of parents they have. Those children were obviously bored/tired, and needed to be in their beds at home.

This seems to be an ever increasing occurrence ? I thought there was some kind of law prohibiting underage kids sitting at the bar ? Within the last month, I have experienced a group of unruly children (approx 4 or 5-years old) sitting at the bar at Martini's while their parents waited for a table; a loud toddler sitting at the bar at Uptown Cafe, and tonight, a couple of 9 or 10-year old girls literally sleeping with their heads on the bar while their parents watched TV at Buckheads. I know I'm old school (mid 50's), but that never would have been allowed or even contemplated back when I was that age. Would like to hear your comments.

Love kids...hate seeing them in a bar...any bar. Maybe my wife and I are old fashioned but our feeling is that it's just not appropriate under any circumstance.

As a side-bar to this discussion, a guy who used to work for me back in MN got pulled over with his 2 y.o in the car after he had a couple of drinks with the boys. I can't recall exactly what he blew but it was something just barely over the limit. As a result of having his child in the car what would have been a moderate slap on the wrist turned into a gross misdemeanor and cost him jail time, thousands and thousands of dollars in fines and legal fees and almost cost him his career. Parents should think about THAT the next time they consider having a drink or two while waiting for a table.

I don't recall the law in Kentucky regarding this, but I agree with Mark Head. I have a hard time understanding why this is such a big issue. Sitting at a bar does not equal underage consumption. Provided the environment is not full of inebriated and inappropriate behavior, I can not see what harm would become a child at a bar. Whether or not one chooses to participate in it, alcohol consumption is a fact of life in this country and, as a result, children can not be sheltered from it their whole lives. I would much rather be involved in modeling responsible consumption for my kids than having them try to figure it out on their own.

Now, in regards to the behavior of the kids Mark A. witnessed, it sounds very much to me as if those issues would have been taking place regardless of whether the kids were at the bar or a table. Sounds like the parents need to work on public behavior with their children or take them out at an appropriate time.

As a side-bar to this discussion, a guy who used to work for me back in MN got pulled over with his 2 y.o in the car after he had a couple of drinks with the boys. I can't recall exactly what he blew but it was something just barely over the limit. As a result of having his child in the car what would have been a moderate slap on the wrist turned into a gross misdemeanor and cost him jail time, thousands and thousands of dollars in fines and legal fees and almost cost him his career. Parents should think about THAT the next time they consider having a drink or two while waiting for a table.

I appreciate your feelings. But that sidebar has nothing at all to do with the original topic. I doubt anyone here would defend drunk parents driving around at all, much less with kids in the car.

KRS 244.085(6)(a) provides:
(6) Except as provided in KRS 244.087 and 244.090, a licensee, or his or her agents, servants, or employees shall not permit any person under twenty-one (21) years of age to remain on any premises where alcoholic beverages are sold by the drink or consumed on the premises, unless:
(a) The usual and customary business of the establishment is a hotel, motel, restaurant, convention center, convention hotel complex, racetrack, simulcast facility, golf course, private club, park, fair, church, school, athletic complex, athletic arena, theater, distillery or brewery or winery tour, establishment where prebooked concerts with advance ticket sales are held, convenience store, grocery store, drug store, or similar establishment. For purposes of this paragraph, house bands, disc jockeys, and karaoke are not considered concerts. . .

This is NOT legal advice, but it seems like if the facility is a restaurant primarily, minors can be present in the bar area, with or without their parents. If the facility is primarily a bar, no kids no matter what (unless there is a concert).

My personal take - kids should not be in the bar area of a restaurant. It's less a matter of corrupting the kids, and more a matter of a nuisance to the patrons. Many of those people might be at the bar because they want to be away from children, and that should be their right.

all depends on how we are defining bar.

When i worked at Tumbleweed, we considered the whole front smoking area the bar area. It featured booths, tall tops and an actual bar. As this was the only smoking area in the restaurant (and my how times have changed), children regularly sat at the booths and the tall tops, but never the actual bar. I can't remember exactly but it may have been company policy that such was not allowed.

Such distinctions, though, are kind of trivial. The tall tops were all of 6 feet from the bar, so whatever happened at the bar, didn't just stay at the bar. I don't really have any qualms with children seeing alcohol or seeing people drink. And, honestly, I don't plan to take my children (if I ever go down that road) to any establishment that would feature a bar with questionable behavior. That's what the babysitter is for.

For me the bar area of most restaurants is still part of the restaurant proper, and, thus, I expect "proper" restaurant behavior in such areas. We can debate all day what "proper" means; for me, there's a very clear distinction between what happens at a "child-friendly" restaurant and what happens at, say, "Insert Irish Pub here," the Granville, or even the BBC. I'd take children to the BBC during lunch and early dinner hours, but by late in the evening or during UK/UL games (when the crazies come out!), I wouldn't go within 100 feet. And I consider the BBC a very classy establishment.

So, it's not so much about the bar in a restaurant as it is whether the establishment is a bar or a restaurant. Going back to my BBC reference, I think I can tell a difference between when it's a restaurant (kid-friendly) and when it's a bar (not kid-friendly). Context seems to matter.

all depends on how we are defining bar.

Exactly, and when it comes to defining a bar, my opinions are completely irrelevant. The governing state bureaucracy makes the call, and we operators either comply or risk extreme pain. Indiana provides precise guidelines describing the bar, the area around it, and who can and can't be there. It's all egregious ... and not to be trifled with.

This aside, and as in other threads on the topic of children, if the law permits kids to be there, it's the parents who have the responsibility to be parents. I agree with Ryan, in the sense that there's no reason why the experience of drinking alcohol publicly need be anything other than useful education for them to use later in life, hopefully to drink responsibily, as is the case in countless German beer gardens with kiddie play areas attached.

Arguably, leaving a child unattended and/or without context in a bar setting is worse from a parental standpoint than doing the same thing in a restaurant (that's bad enough). The law provides parameters, and the parents should provide parameters. The end goal of both should be functional education, right?

Then again, I don't have kids. maybe I'm missing something.

all depends on how we are defining bar.

Exactly, and when it comes to defining a bar, my opinions are completely irrelevant. The governing state bureaucracy makes the call, and we operators either comply or risk extreme pain. Indiana provides precise guidelines describing the bar, the area around it, and who can and can't be there. It's all egregious ... and not to be trifled with.

This aside, and as in other threads on the topic of children, if the law permits kids to be there, it's the parents who have the responsibility to be parents. I agree with Ryan, in the sense that there's no reason why the experience of drinking alcohol publicly need be anything other than useful education for them to use later in life, hopefully to drink responsibily, as is the case in countless German beer gardens with kiddie play areas attached.

Arguably, leaving a child unattended and/or without context in a bar setting is worse from a parental standpoint than doing the same thing in a restaurant (that's bad enough). The law provides parameters, and the parents should provide parameters. The end goal of both should be functional education, right?

Then again, I don't have kids. maybe I'm missing something.

I'm a father and I agree with everything you said!