Tip on expensive bottles of wine

I am sure this has been discussed before but I did a search in the forum and couldn't locate a thread...

We overheard some servers discussing how cheap a table was because they has a gigantic bill ($1000+) and only tipped $100. I got to thinking that there was no possible way that 6 people spent $1000+ on food (at this particular restaurant) so I assume they purchased a couple bottles of expensive wine. If you buy $500+ in wine but it's only 2 or 3 bottles do standard tip rules apply? Sadly, I'm not in this position very often but I spent some time thinking about it and wondered what others thought...

As a server, I feel that if you can afford to go out and drop $1000 on wine, you can afford to tip adequately. I'm sorry, but $100 on a $1000 check IS cheap. Look at it this way, chances are if you serve and end up with a table that is going to be around a grand it will most likely be your only table of the night. I'd be willing to bet that server fawned all over them and gave them exactly what they needed. If I sold $1000 to a bunch of tables and got 10% I'd be just as pissed.

I'm not a server, but I do understand how hard they work. And that their income is almost completely dependent on tips.

I'w with Jeremy J on this one. If you can afford to buy that wine, then you can afford to tip better than 10%. Eating out is a luxury, and the budget for the evening must include a proper gratuity. If you can't afford the tip, then choose foods and wine that are less expensive to stay in budget and tip appropriately. If that tip was not a budget issue, then it qualifies as "Klassy."

[Robin Garr]

If you buy $500+ in wine but it's only 2 or 3 bottles do standard tip rules apply? Sadly, I'm not in this position very often but I spent some time thinking about it and wondered what others thought...

You'll occasionally read books of formal etiquette that excuse tipping less on wine than on the meal, but I'm with Jeremy and Leah on this: If you can afford a fancy dinner at an upscale eatery, you can afford to treat your server right.

It just seems kind of chintzy to me to spend a couple of hundred bucks to entertain yourself and your companion with a fancy dinner, then sit down at the end and nickel-and-dime the person who spent the evening serving you.

I tip on the total - including beverages and tax - and don't sweat the details.

I am sure this has been discussed before but I did a search in the forum and couldn't locate a thread...

We overheard some servers discussing how cheap a table was ...

If patrons can hear a server discussion regarding a cheap table, maybe the server is not as good as he thinks.

Well no one should be complaining about a customer within earshot but that doesn't change the fact that a 10% tip is patently offensive.

I'd be willing to bet that server fawned all over them and gave them exactly what they needed. If I sold $1000 to a bunch of tables and got 10% I'd be just as pissed.

The server's job was to fawn over the customers and give them what they needed, regardless what they spent. If I'm going out to eat, I expect to be taken care of, whether I'm spending $50, or $500. Like it or not, tips are OPTIONAL, not a given. My husband and I tip very well for good service. If we are given poor service, this will be reflected in the tip.

Yes, the tip was waaay too low, and I would consider that "klassy" and offensive, but I would also consider a server in a presumably reputable restaurant, complaining about his tip within earshot of another customer, just as "klassy" and offensive.

I'd be willing to bet that server fawned all over them and gave them exactly what they needed. If I sold $1000 to a bunch of tables and got 10% I'd be just as pissed.

The server's job was to fawn over the customers and give them what they needed, regardless what they spent. If I'm going out to eat, I expect to be taken care of, whether I'm spending $50, or $500. Like it or not, tips are OPTIONAL, not a given. My husband and I tip very well for good service. If we are given poor service, this will be reflected in the tip.

Yes, the tip was waaay too low, and I would consider that "klassy" and offensive, but I would also consider a server in a presumably reputable restaurant, complaining about his tip within earshot of another customer, just as "klassy" and offensive.

Maybe fawn was a bad choice of words, and certainly I would never encourage a lack of service for a smaller check, but my point that that most likely was the server's only table all night is a valid one. I suppose what I should have said in place of fawn was "had a more than adequate chance to meet the diners needs and did so." I also (as stated previously) agree that talking about a customer within earshot of other customers is totally not cool, but at them same time, servers are human and can make mistakes. It's possible in a momentary blind rage at that obscene tip, the server lacked proper decorum, and while I like to think I could handle it well, I could see myself saying something inappropriate out of shock in the heat of the moment.

One thing I would be interested to see is if this place had a gratuity policy for parties of 6 or more...most times places make it optional for the server to apply, and I can see why some servers wouldn't want to from time to time, but on a check this big, I think I would all over that gratuity button.

Also- a quick note on the tone of this tip business because I get the impression when tipping etiquette comes up on the forum that there is a certain defensiveness by non-servers who I think may be getting the impression that servers are just impatiently waiting for their money and if it isn't appropriate tip wise that we just moan about it and complain about customers.

I want to make it clear for the record that I love serving, and while I do find lackluster tips frustrating, a bad tip is less something for me to get mad about and more of an insult. I work really hard to make sure my customer gets exactly what they want and stand by my service. A bad tip for me is in my opinion a snub and lends itself more to hurt feelings in myself than monetary complaints.

10% on any bill is way too low, unless they were getting horrible service. I would imagine that it is tough to run up that kind of tab without getting at least adequete service, but I would assume they received good service to get to that total.

Now discussing this within earshot of other customers is as bad as the 10% tip. As a customer, I know the last thing I would want to hear is someone discussing other customers and their finances. That kind of talk is best reserved for the bar after work than discussed while at work

I'd be willing to bet that server fawned all over them and gave them exactly what they needed. If I sold $1000 to a bunch of tables and got 10% I'd be just as pissed.

The server's job was to fawn over the customers and give them what they needed, regardless what they spent. If I'm going out to eat, I expect to be taken care of, whether I'm spending $50, or $500. Like it or not, tips are OPTIONAL, not a given. My husband and I tip very well for good service. If we are given poor service, this will be reflected in the tip.

Yes, the tip was waaay too low, and I would consider that "klassy" and offensive, but I would also consider a server in a presumably reputable restaurant, complaining about his tip within earshot of another customer, just as "klassy" and offensive.

Maybe fawn was a bad choice of words, and certainly I would never encourage a lack of service for a smaller check, but my point that that most likely was the server's only table all night is a valid one. I suppose what I should have said in place of fawn was "had a more than adequate chance to meet the diners needs and did so." I also (as stated previously) agree that talking about a customer within earshot of other customers is totally not cool, but at them same time, servers are human and can make mistakes. It's possible in a momentary blind rage at that obscene tip, the server lacked proper decorum, and while I like to think I could handle it well, I could see myself saying something inappropriate out of shock in the heat of the moment.

One thing I would be interested to see is if this place had a gratuity policy for parties of 6 or more...most times places make it optional for the server to apply, and I can see why some servers wouldn't want to from time to time, but on a check this big, I think I would all over that gratuity button.

Jeremy, all of your points are completely valid!


How can I word this without it coming off mean or nasty, as I certainly don't mean it that way?

I guess my general "complaint" is that a tip is supposed to be a "thank you" for good service, and sometimes, it's just taken for granted that no matter how poorly the customer is treated, the server will be tipped, and I think this makes service suffer. It seems like the customer is expected to leave a tip, regardless of how crappy service is, and I've had some EXTREMELY crappy service. Case in point:

I will never forget what happened a few years ago at Chili's on Hurstbourne Lane. I was out with a few friends for burgers. Our server must have profiled us, big time. He was downright rude, and slow, to boot. When he gave us each our bills, he had written on them how much gratuity to leave him! Needless to say, we were insulted, and he didn't get much of a tip. Not because we were kids, but because he was an incompetent jerk.

Hopefully someone can give me a history lesson on a somewhat related topic:

I've always wondered how the system of calculating a tip came to be connected to the price of the meal. As it's possible to get great service at less expensive establishments and lousy service at pricey ones, the whole system seems to penalize good servers at more affordable restaurants and reward bad ones at expensive places. 10% of an expensive meal is often still more than 25% of a cheaper one. Is that really fair?

I realize the expectation of service is higher in a fine dining atmosphere and the knowledge and effort necessary to provide it well *should* require more work, but reality doesn't always match those expectations.

I'd be interested in hearing how servers feel about it, with the understanding that the question of fairness isn't at all a slam on servers. My very, very brief experience as a wannabe server years ago taught me to appreciate that others are very good at it.

Servers are taxed (income-wise) according to their "sales." This is why the tip is also based on the sale. Whether you leave a good tip or a bad one, the server will still always be taxed on your bill. (Yes, even if you use a gift certificate.) I think that this is something that a large portion of the population does not know.

Regarding servers who speak about bad tips within earshot of customers: it's pretty common for a server to ask another server if a table took care of them. This is especially true if they have an obviously large check. It may not have been the stiffed server who started the conversation. They may have simply answered a question. I wasn't there, so i don't know, though.

Jeremy.

I'm curious about the statement that this table would probably be the server's only table for the night. I knew that could happen with a large party- say a birthday party for 15- 20. Why would that happen if it's only a 6 -top? If Christian is right and they didn't eat excessively but purchased 2-3 bottles costing $500-600, wouldn't the server still be waiting on other tables in their area? Or are you saying that somehow they get identified as a bigger spender and then management doesn't give the server any additional tables to insure perfect service? Just curious as to how that works....

DEb

Servers are taxed (income-wise) according to their "sales."

A server's tax liability is a minimum of 8% of their pre-taxed, post-promo sales. At the time of checkout, the server keys an amount into the computer for the day's claim. Most waitstaff do not claim more than the minimum. And I do stress, "most" - of course there are some that fear auditting or may plan on applying for a loan.