"A restaurant without any decent beer choices ... "

It's what I've been saying for a very long time, expressed quite nicely at the Hoosier Beer Geek blog out of Indianapolis.

"At the risk of sounding like your grandpa, I'd like to bring up that there was a time before you could get good beer everywhere in Indianapolis. We started this site with the quest to find great beer among our goals, and back then we'd be happy to find a tap or two to work with.

Now better beer is everywhere. If you're eating at an Indianapolis restaurant that doesn't have a beer that makes you happy, leave, and never come back. A restaurant without any decent beer choices is willfully ignorant, and doesn't deserve your money. "

http://hoosierbeergeek.blogspot.com/2012/06/kotbr-142-two-at-la-margarita-fountain.html
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It's what I've been saying for a very long time, expressed quite nicely at the Hoosier Beer Geek blog out of Indianapolis.

What were you saying?

Hey, we could talk about roadworks and vacuum bags ad nauseum. Wait – we did that already. OOOH HOW DARE I? I know, I live in the sticks where road works consist mostly of scraping up last nights pickup flattened possum haul and...... I don't even eat sushi. Doesn't eat sushi? GET OUT!

Also, I say burn that damn meat for hours with real smoke and fire. Present it to us with flash burns still on your face and we will love you for it. Slow boil it for hours at low temp and dump a bit of smoke flavor in at the end and we'll just refer you to Doc Crows with an “already been done.” Just don't cook it for 20+ hours like some and call it Juicy's. That wretched stuff is a blender away from being meat sauce.

With that out of the way, let us talk about something I find very interesting. Drinking good tasting beer! Roger's link wasn't what I thought it would be. I've read that blogspot a few times before and found it somewhat entertaining. More so than sidewalks vs bikes and antiseptic cooking methods for sure. It does seem slightly redundant though as having four people say mostly the same thing about the beer they are drinking gets a bit old. Also, anybody around here who likes bitter beer and hasn't already enjoyed Victory's Headwaters Pale Ale or Hopdevil for that matter hasn't been paying attention. If they don't like bitter beer they likely don't care to read four opinions of it. What about the lager,” you say. Well what about it? I don't drink lager. Wait – yes I do.

I happened onto New Belgium's Shift Lager a few weeks ago at Meijer's. The thing that caught my attention was that it was in 16 oz cans. Yesss! I have long thought that beer tastes better from cans than it does from bottles. Most of you snotty beer snobs (you know who you are - if you don't, GaryZ will be happy to identify you) probably don't know that. I don't dislike Bud Light because it comes in cans that cost about 50 cents each. I don't dislike it because it is low in alcohol or even because every redneck, college kid, and NACAR fan sucks it or Miller Lite down like water in the desert. I dislike it because “to me” it tastes like water. That is, when it is icy cold it tastes like water with a bit of tingle at the end. More a sensation than a taste. When it warms up, well then you can taste its character. Anybody like warm Bud Light?

If the beer you are drinking tastes like shit when it is warm – STOP DRINKING IT! You don't really like what it tastes like anyway. If you must have your beer ice cold in a frosty mug then its the numbing wet sensation you are digging not the taste. Save yourself some money and get ice water. Dump some vodka in it if you want a buzz. Be sure and get the stuff that's been distilled six times to get all the taste out of it. If you want it to taste like something, never fear, the bar tenders have started adding flavor back into vodka. They call it infusion. Of course you could just drink beer with good flavor to begin with.

That New Belgium Shift Lager is a tasty one I say. Of course the can says “Pale Lager” WHAT? What the hell is a pale lager. Roger? Is that like a black pale ale? What's next, a pale swartz bier?

West 6th Brewing in Lexington have created a freaking monster of a beer. Their IPA (sure whatever) is very citrusy with a little bitter! I want more.

Oh sorry Roger, what were you saying?

Oh sorry Roger, what were you saying?

Actually, what I was saying was this: Look, ma, a Mexican joint that finally GETS IT WHEN IT COMES TO BEER.

But I richly enjoyed your digression, Shane. Now I must proceed to the Research & Development Brewery at the Pizzeria & Public House to watch NABC and Flat12 brew something sour.

Oh sorry Roger, what were you saying?

Actually, what I was saying was this: Look, ma, a Mexican joint that finally GETS IT WHEN IT COMES TO BEER.

But I richly enjoyed your digression, Shane. Now I must proceed to the Research & Development Brewery at the Pizzeria & Public House to watch NABC and Flat12 brew something sour.

Oh ok, now I get it. Well I just got home and I got a three hour window so I'm going over to this pizza joint I know that also gets it. I want to try some weird kiwi suds I heard about and then I'll wash that taste out of my mouth with some 100+ IBU Summer Cycle IPA! BITTER RULES!!!

When I get home, I'm suppose to pull all of my screens out in prep for washing and painting the house. Hmmm, beer, ladder, darkness,...... sounds like maybe I should skip the kiwi. Cheers!

Why should I make beer selection the controlling criteria for which restaurants I choose to patronize? Restaurants are primarily about food. A good beer list is nice, as is a decent wine list, but if a place has great food I'll still go even if they have neither.

[Robin Garr]

A good beer list is nice, as is a decent wine list, but if a place has great food I'll still go even if they have neither.

I agree about 90 percent, Jeff, but would argue that - for a white-tablecloth restaurant or bistro, at least - lack of attentiveness to a decent wine list is often (if not always) a worrisome sign of a lack of commitment in other areas as well.

I admire Roger's efforts to push the beer list into this same defining category and am happy to work more quietly on the food-critic margins to help push this happy world into reality.

It's what I've been saying for a very long time, expressed quite nicely at the Hoosier Beer Geek blog out of Indianapolis.

What were you saying?

Hey, we could talk about roadworks and vacuum bags ad nauseum. Wait – we did that already. OOOH HOW DARE I? I know, I live in the sticks where road works consist mostly of scraping up last nights pickup flattened possum haul and...... I don't even eat sushi. Doesn't eat sushi? GET OUT!

Also, I say burn that damn meat for hours with real smoke and fire. Present it to us with flash burns still on your face and we will love you for it. Slow boil it for hours at low temp and dump a bit of smoke flavor in at the end and we'll just refer you to Doc Crows with an “already been done.” Just don't cook it for 20+ hours like some and call it Juicy's. That wretched stuff is a blender away from being meat sauce.

This kind of ignorance is the exact problem that the craft beer community faces with domestic beer drinkers who don't know any better and don't care to know any better. So instead of giving something a shot or even attempting to educate themselves before they speak they willfully spout forth a critique of something they know very little about...
I have some pork butts going low and slow in the smoker right now since 1am this morning... with real smoke and fire.
Also Doc Crows cooks their meat with real smoke in a very very expensive professional smoker.

This kind of ignorance is the exact problem that the craft beer community faces with domestic beer drinkers who don't know any better and don't care to know any better. So instead of giving something a shot or even attempting to educate themselves before they speak they willfully spout forth a critique of something they know very little about...
I have some pork butts going low and slow in the smoker right now since 1am this morning... with real smoke and fire.
Also Doc Crows cooks their meat with real smoke in a very very expensive professional smoker.

Oh hey Ryan! Looks like you found my opinion/s.....ignorant. Well that's ok, were all entitled to them. It's lunch time and I'd like nothing better than to understand yours.

While I've never claimed to be an expert regarding cooking bbq or brewing beer I have certainly put in a lot of time and effort over the years into seeking out both. I quite like Doc Crow's. I've eaten there more than a dozen times and as recently as a couple of weeks ago. I just get their oysters now though. Oh and their beer!

After four tries, I found that there is a distinct lack of smoke flavor in their pulled pork and brisket. Further, their brisket was so over cooked that it's texture resembled the corn beef I usually get with my cabbage. I'm wondering if they are smoking this meat or sealing it up in a bag and steeping it. If they are using an expensive smoker to do this to their meat, then I say they need to try something else. Or not. I'll just keep eating their oysters, drinking their beer, and complaining about their bbq.

I'm very glad to hear that you are smoking your meats using real smoke and fire. I never thought you weren't. I also wouldn't presume to tell you how to cook your bbq to suit yourself. But, I will most certainly tell you or anyone else who wants to sell me bbq or beer what I like and don't like. If that offends then I'm sorry about that. That is not the intent.

We trekked way out to Peewee Valley a few months ago to get some bbq from a place I've been hearing about for years. The place is called Jucy's. I mistakenly assumed it was called Juicy's because the brisket I was served was one step away from soup.

I was a little worried when I checked out their website and it mentioned that they smoked their meat for 16 – 20 hours in their Texas smoker. I lived in Texas for seven years and ate mountains of brisket. I can't remember for sure how long the brisket was typically smoked there. Maybe its 16 – 20 hours. What I can tell you is that in all those years of eating Texas brisket in Texas, I never had brisket that was remotely like that served by Doc Crow's and Jucy's. I don't care to either.

I lived in Fayetteville, NC for five years. I found the pulled pork there to be my favorite. The eastern Carolina style is really just smoked pork. Any sauce (vinegar based) is on the side. I like to put Texas Pete hot sauce on it myself and never bother with ketchup or mustard based sweet sauces. The pork by itself is so flavorful that it really needs nothing else. Except maybe some raw onions, pickles, or slaw to add that nice crunch.

Let us know when you are open Ryan. I can't wait to try your bbq. Back to work now. Cheers Ryan!

A good beer list is nice, as is a decent wine list, but if a place has great food I'll still go even if they have neither.

I agree about 90 percent, Jeff, but would argue that - for a white-tablecloth restaurant or bistro, at least - lack of attentiveness to a decent wine list is often (if not always) a worrisome sign of a lack of commitment in other areas as well.

I admire Roger's efforts to push the beer list into this same defining category and am happy to work more quietly on the food-critic margins to help push this happy world into reality.

I dont think it needs a push, it is already there (and always was). People just arent aware of it yet.

Edit to edit: oops, edited in wrong window.

We trekked way out to Peewee Valley a few months ago to get some bbq from a place I've been hearing about for years. The place is called Jucy's. I mistakenly assumed it was called Juicy's because the brisket I was served was one step away from soup.

Having given Jucy's several opportunities to wow me with their offerings (I live about 10 minutes away) I've yet to come away anything but unimpressed...and unfortunately their brisket is one of the better offerings I recommend Texican's in Crestwood or Big R's in LaGrange when venturing out this way. Neither will have the best BBQ you've ever eaten but it is always consistently good BBQ, which in and of itself is an improvement over most joints.

There are several places in town that serve reasonably good BBQ...and there are several places in town that have good beer lists, unfortunately I have yet to find great BBQ and great beer in the same place. Smokey Bones probably comes about as close as anything I've found locally.

Hmmmmmm.....perhaps I have stumbled on to a concept worthy of bringing me out of retirement.

There are several places in town that serve reasonably good BBQ...and there are several places in town that have good beer lists, unfortunately I have yet to find great BBQ and great beer in the same place. Smokey Bones probably comes about as close as anything I've found locally.

Hmmmmmm.....perhaps I have stumbled on to a concept worthy of bringing me out of retirement.

New Albanians might have an answer to this quandary as early as next Wednesday.

"A restaurant without any decent beer choices is willfully ignorant, and doesn't deserve your money."

I know it sounds almost absurd to many, but restaurants really should heed this warning.

All of the mid $ range restaurants I frequent have good beer selection, and I would not be there if they didn't. From my experience, the same is true for many in the 25-39 year-old crowd.

Exceptions to the rule for me would include sushi and high-end restaurants.

There's not a one size fits all for restaurants. I enjoy craft beer a lot, maybe more than most.

But, I recently visited Fish Shack in Pompano Beach and had maybe the best scallops ever. These friendly folks offered both kinds of beer, Bud AND Bud Light. I had the Bud. It was $1.50. I was pleased.

"A restaurant without any decent beer choices is willfully ignorant, and doesn't deserve your money."

I know it sounds almost absurd to many, but restaurants really should heed this warning.

All of the mid $ range restaurants I frequent have good beer selection, and I would not be there if they didn't. From my experience, the same is true for many in the 25-39 year-old crowd.

Im slightly above that age range, and its also true (well, mostly) for me.

Exceptions to the rule for me would include sushi and high-end restaurants.

There are places I go without good beer selections, but sushi doesnt have to be that way. See Maido, for example. However, I guess that Thai and Cuban and Mexican seem to be my exceptions to the rule. But if a Thai place would carry a decent beer selection, I would actually order a beer while there, so they are missing out.

And I see no reason for high-end restaurants not to have a decent beer list. They are probably the least forgivable, IMO.

Exceptions to the rule for me would include sushi and high-end restaurants.

Why would these be different? Maido set the standard for beer lists in Sushi restaurants.

There are places I go without good beer selections, but sushi doesnt have to be that way. See Maido, for example. However, I guess that Thai and Cuban and Mexican seem to be my exceptions to the rule. But if a Thai place would carry a decent beer selection, I would actually order a beer while there, so they are missing out.

And I see no reason for high-end restaurants not to have a decent beer list. They are probably the least forgivable, IMO.

What Rob said.